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Old 02-27-2012, 06:16 PM   #21
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Are the massholians up in arms over this?
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:18 PM   #22
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Are the massholians up in arms over this?
No,


This is not in the news at all, I heard about from a MA electrical contractor association.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:25 PM   #23
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The trick is convincing homeowners insurance companies not to pay if the work caused a fire and was done without permitting and inspection.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:30 PM   #24
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I disagree entirely.

I think it is a homeowners right to screw up their own home as bad as they want.

And put who in harms way?

What about home renovators? Should the purchaser of a home that has been renovated for resale not have some assurance that work was done properly?

Should the next person to work on the home not be protected

Impact on insurance, health care, etc.

I think there is a lot more at stake than someone's right to screw up in their own home

My two cents anyway
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:34 PM   #25
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The trick is convincing homeowners insurance companies not to pay if the work caused a fire and was done without permitting and inspection.
well they do own everything out to Neptune.....~CS~
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:36 PM   #26
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And put who in harms way?

What about home renovators? Should the purchaser of a home that has been renovated for resale not have some assurance that work was done properly?

Should the next person to work on the home not be protected

Impact on insurance, health care, etc.

I think there is a lot more at stake than someone's right to screw up in their own home

My two cents anyway
You get home inspections when you purchase a house, just make sure it's a good one.

I get where you are going with that though, and I agree. It doesn't effect JUST that homeowner, just as a lot of the NEC is in place to protect against the lowest common denominator and "what if" situations.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:45 PM   #27
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I disagree entirely.

I think it is a homeowners right to screw up their own home as bad as they want.
This clarification is only being done so professional home flippers can bypass the licensing laws once the work is done they put the house up for sale and move on to the next one.

At least the Plumbers have the courage to so no.


Here is the next one up at the plate to bypass the Electricians licensing laws.

http://www.mecanews.com/pdf/Bill%20t...r%20HB1004.pdf
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:46 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svh19044

You get home inspections when you purchase a house, just make sure it's a good one.

I get where you are going with that though, and I agree. It doesn't effect JUST that homeowner, just as a lot of the NEC is in place to protect against the lowest common denominator and "what if" situations.

I don't know if I would trust most generic home inspections to catch, let alone understand electrical code infractions, major or minor.

Our code compliance and policing is complex and fairly detailed.

Some major checks in place as well limiting who can pull permits.
Licensing laws have been a hot topic for 5-6 years now.

Quick example

If a home owner pulls a permit, hires a friend/neighbour etc, to do the work for them, and it doesn't matter if that person is licensed or not. If ESA catches them, they can get a major fine and so can the person who did the work.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:47 PM   #29
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This clarification is only being done so professional home flippers can bypass the licensing laws once the work is done they put the house up for sale and move on to the next one.
Harry, you are truly and fatally warped.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:47 PM   #30
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Are the massholians up in arms over this?
I don't think you spelled that right.....
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:50 PM   #31
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Quote:
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I disagree entirely.

I think it is a homeowners right to screw up their own home as bad as they want.
I would like to agree, but since they are also entitled to sell the home
someday, the unsuspecting buyer will be relying on the HI will catch
everything that is screwed up.

One can say "Buyer Beware", but IMO HOs should have to pull permits
just like anyone else because most likely someone else will be living
in the house one day.

Just my opinion.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:51 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomps View Post
I don't know if I would trust most generic home inspections to catch, let alone understand electrical code infractions, major or minor.

Our code compliance and policing is complex and fairly detailed.

Some major checks in place as well limiting who can pull permits.
Licensing laws have been a hot topic for 5-6 years now.

Quick example

If a home owner pulls a permit, hires a friend/neighbour etc, to do the work for them, and it doesn't matter if that person is licensed or not. If ESA catches them, they can get a major fine and so can the person who did the work.
What about township inspectors who would inspect the rough/final who aren't much better than a bad home inspector?
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:52 PM   #33
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I would like to agree, but since they are also entitled to sell the home
someday, the unsuspecting buyer will be relying on the HI will catch
everything that is screwed up.

One can say "Buyer Beware", but IMO HOs should have to pull permits
just like anyone else because most likely someone else will be living
in the house one day.

Just my opinion.
I agree, and that's what makes this legislation a good move. A responsible homeowner, who is actually living in a home with their family, should WANT everything to be code compliant and safe. And they should have the means of getting a permit and inspection if they shall choose.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:53 PM   #34
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What about township inspectors who would inspect the rough/final who aren't much better than a bad home inspector?
You have a good point, but HIs are after the work has been done, and
may not even know that anything has been done. At least the local
inspectors are looking at it specifically for that reason.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:54 PM   #35
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Harry, you are truly and fatally warped.

I do not agree to opening the door to Unlicensed practice.

There are 34,000 licensed guys in mass that busted there chops and payed a lot of money to get the license so now they are trying to bypass the whole system because they want to make a profession a minimum wage job to please all these GREEN corporations.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:55 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexowner View Post
I would like to agree, but since they are also entitled to sell the home
someday, the unsuspecting buyer will be relying on the HI will catch
everything that is screwed up.

One can say "Buyer Beware", but IMO HOs should have to pull permits
just like anyone else because most likely someone else will be living
in the house one day.

Just my opinion.
So lets do that, lets require homeowners to get permits and inspections.

Now fast forward 30 years into the future how would a potential buyer of a used home know the previous owners had complied with the rule to have inspections done?

My point is simply that it would amount to a rule to make us feel warm and fuzzy but really would not change how much a potential home buyer is protected.

Just my opinion.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:57 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svh19044

What about township inspectors who would inspect the rough/final who aren't much better than a bad home inspector?
Only ESA (electrical safety authority) can inspect electrical work in Ontario.
Municipal, building, etc. inspectors have no authority to look at electrical work.

But I know what you are saying
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:59 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by HARRY304E View Post
I do not agree to opening the door to Unlicensed practice.

There are 34,000 licensed guys in mass that busted there chops and payed a lot of money to get the license so now they are trying to bypass the whole system because they want to make a profession a minimum wage job to please all these GREEN corporations.
Help me understand, Harry. I don't quite understand your logic on this topic.

HO's are required to get a permit for doing work on the homes that they own.

What's the harm in that?
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:02 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by HARRY304E View Post
I do not agree to opening the door to Unlicensed practice.

There are 34,000 licensed guys in mass that busted there chops and payed a lot of money to get the license so now they are trying to bypass the whole system because they want to make a profession a minimum wage job to please all these GREEN corporations.
Harry which subject are you talking about?
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:02 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ

So lets do that, lets require homeowners to get permits and inspections.

Now fast forward 30 years into the future how would a potential buyer of a used home know the previous owners had complied with the rule to have inspections done?

My point is simply that it would amount to a rule to make us feel warm and fuzzy but really would not change how much a potential home buyer is protected.

Just my opinion.

I don't think you're giving the system enough credit, but I understand what you are saying.

We are seeing the system work here, that's where I am coming from

No worries.
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