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Old 03-26-2019, 10:39 PM   #1
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Anyone use/using motor analyzers for predictive maintenance? Looking to do some more learning and motors are what turn my crank () right now.

I'm looking for resources for training, self learning, a mentor.... who needs an internet cub?
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Old 03-27-2019, 06:17 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by stuiec View Post
Anyone use/using motor analyzers for predictive maintenance? Looking to do some more learning and motors are what turn my crank () right now.

I'm looking for resources for training, self learning, a mentor.... who needs an internet cub?
I guess there isnt going to be any grandchildren.
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Old 03-27-2019, 09:37 AM   #3
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I have seen three the ALLTEST and the one that operated through a lap top and the BAKER that looked at the pulse signiture on the screen.

The ALLTEST The salesman came in and initally I was very impressed with it and in the overall sceme of things it was not that expensive at that time around $1000.00. Not bad what they said it would do. I took the salesman over to a 2400 volt motor that had blown 2 5 KV fuses . With a standard ohmmeter I knew that the winding had continuity. We connected the Alltest to the motor at the starter and the motor tested fine. I told him that I have 2 blown fuses that tell me otherwise. So with that I lost all faith in the Alltest.

The BAKER Had a rewind shop come in to test a couple of motors they connected the Baker unit to the same 2400 volt motor that the Alltest checked fine. the Baker indicated that all 3 windings were shorted. I could believe that.

The LAPTOP driven The only thing I can say about them is for the most part they generate a whole lot of meaningless information and they only way to correct the problem with the motor is either to rewind or replace the motor or replace the wiring going to the motor.
Had a motor testing company come into the plant to test the motors in a unit on a 6 month schedule. These are 6 2400 volt motors aand probably 60 480 volt motors. The last time they came in they said that one of the 480 volt motors had bad control wiring. The control cable was replaced by unit maintenance and it was brought to our shop for testing. I placed the cable into a plastic garbage can and filled the garbage can with water. Megged the cable conductor to conductor and then all of the conductors to the water in the garbage can. The cable checked like it was new. Then the garbage can split emptiing the water to the floor.

99% of motor problems can be found with a volt ohmmeter (DMM) ,a ammeter a ,megger and a variac. The variac is used to pass current through the motor in steps wile you take voltage and current readings. because you are using AC by using Ohms law your answer will be impedence not resistance. AC makes shorted windings show up fast.

LC
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Old 03-27-2019, 03:46 PM   #4
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99% of motor problems can be found with a volt ohmmeter (DMM) ,a ammeter a ,megger and a variac. The variac is used to pass current through the motor in steps wile you take voltage and current readings. because you are using AC by using Ohms law your answer will be impedence not resistance. AC makes shorted windings show up fast.

LC
Thanks for the reply, I think you just saved me a bundle! I want to become good at testing/troubleshooting motors. Do you recommend any reading, or other avenues of learning? I'm a one man band, so workmates are out. I have a decent understanding of electric motors, but troubleshooting for me at the moment is limited to basics.

Also, do I read you right in saying that predictive maintenance is a bit of a waste of time?
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Old 03-27-2019, 03:47 PM   #5
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I guess there isnt going to be any grandchildren.
I've already taken care of my share in that department
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Old 03-27-2019, 08:48 PM   #6
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Preventive maintenance is can be a waste of time and money if not properly scheduled. Coming from the chemical industry as long as you have a unit that is running OK it is foolish to shut the unit down just to do motor maintenance. Wait until your scheduled major outages.Keep enough spare parts on hand that if you do have a motor fail you can replace it on the fly. If you are cycling motors you can catch a motor when it is down. A little bit of planning can go a long way. A 10HP 480 volt is not that a expensive of a item to invest a lot of money in maintenance on. It either runs or it don't.
Now if you have a large motor say a 1000HP brush type synchronous yes you do need to be there when it is screaming help me help me and it does not hurt to pay it a visit on at least a weekly visit. but if it is running OK leave it alone.

Viberation analysis is good and it has to be done on wile the machine is running a good viberation man is worth his weight in gold.
Some electrical problems have mechanical signitures that a viberation man can find before a it starts tripping overloads or brakers.


I have seen built in meggers in new Eaton motor control centers that monitor motor insulation on the off cycle. This was for critical motors or motors that are extremely hard to replace for one reason or anouther.

LC
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Old 03-27-2019, 08:54 PM   #7
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If you work in a place with motors, you could get in touch with your motor shop.
They are the distributor for the manufacturer.
Do you use a certain brand of motor or do you have many brands? Baldor, Weg, Siemens, TECO, are just a couple to mention.

If you are allowed get in touch with your first contact. If you are a good customer and use a lot of a certain product, you may get free training.

When I was in sales, motors and drives, the manufacturers reps would call often with an empty seat or a buy one get one free deal for some kind of seminar or training session from large frame motors, drives or servos. These sometimes require some travel and your company must be able to let you go for two, three days.

I hear this question a lot on this forum. I guess I was lucky to have these opportunities.
I hope you can have them as well.
Your ticket is to get to know these people. The people that supply your motors and the people that build them.
My last trip was to Brazil. Cost me nothing.
They will help you.
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Old 03-27-2019, 09:19 PM   #8
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As far as reading material most of my information came from old EC&M articles that back in the 70's EC&M would publish them in book form. Looking at the photos associated with the articles I would say that those articles would have been from the 50's and 60's .
Also there is a book by Robert Rosenberg and August Hand ELECTRIC MOTOR REPAIR. All technical books should be arranged that way. Amazon has this book.

I also have a old copy of MAINTENANCE HINTS by Westinghouse Publishing Div. This book is avaliable on line and it might be in PDF format. Amazon has used copies of this book.

PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE OF ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT by Charles I Hubert

ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT TESTING AND MAINTENANCE by AS Gill

Amazon has both of these books also.

Hope this helps
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Old 03-27-2019, 09:47 PM   #9
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As far as reading material most of my information came from old EC&M articles that back in the 70's EC&M would publish them in book form. Looking at the photos associated with the articles I would say that those articles would have been from the 50's and 60's .
Also there is a book by Robert Rosenberg and August Hand ELECTRIC MOTOR REPAIR. All technical books should be arranged that way. Amazon has this book.

I also have a old copy of MAINTENANCE HINTS by Westinghouse Publishing Div. This book is avaliable on line and it might be in PDF format. Amazon has used copies of this book.

PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE OF ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT by Charles I Hubert

ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT TESTING AND MAINTENANCE by AS Gill

Amazon has both of these books also.

Hope this helps
Thanks for the suggestions, just ordered both. I appreciate you pointing me in what seems a practical direction!
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Old 03-27-2019, 09:48 PM   #10
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If you work in a place with motors, you could get in touch with your motor shop.
They are the distributor for the manufacturer.
Do you use a certain brand of motor or do you have many brands? Baldor, Weg, Siemens, TECO, are just a couple to mention.

If you are allowed get in touch with your first contact. If you are a good customer and use a lot of a certain product, you may get free training.

When I was in sales, motors and drives, the manufacturers reps would call often with an empty seat or a buy one get one free deal for some kind of seminar or training session from large frame motors, drives or servos. These sometimes require some travel and your company must be able to let you go for two, three days.

I hear this question a lot on this forum. I guess I was lucky to have these opportunities.
I hope you can have them as well.
Your ticket is to get to know these people. The people that supply your motors and the people that build them.
My last trip was to Brazil. Cost me nothing.
They will help you.
Thanks John, I'm always working on relationships. It really does often come down to who you know.
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Old 03-28-2019, 11:49 AM   #11
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Thanks John, I'm always working on relationships. It really does often come down to who you know.
Trust me. The guys you want to know, want to know you. Its in their best interest as it is in yours.
With the few exceptions (had a recent member be ignored by his supplier because he was not a big enough account) these guys want to come to your facility.
They want to see what you got. They want to see how they can build a relationship with you. This is what puts food on their tables.
Sales people need your business.

Look around your facility and see what is there. If you are using one kind of drive or motor, I would find out first where the equipment came from. Who sold it to you.
Then call that supplier /vendor/distributor when you have questions.
Before you know it you will know your supplier and he will know you.

Get them involved in equipment problems, warranties and other things they can help you with. Applications are a great way to get someone in house.
I know when I was in this type of sales job, a call from a customer beat me making a cold call on a potential customer any day.

There's a not much better feeling for a salesman than the customer looking forward to you showing up.
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