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Old 02-03-2017, 03:15 PM   #21
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No high legs in NYC. PHEW! Dodged that bullet...
Being one of the first cities to be electrified, how is it that, through all the iterations of wiring systems, there are no 4-wire delta systems?
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Old 02-03-2017, 03:46 PM   #22
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Thanks for your candor.

When I was new with the company we did an overnight service change that included three panel replacements. Crew A in the daytime labeled conductors and removed three panel. Crew B installed new panels and relapsed everything. I was on crew B but being the new guy I just shut up and did what I was told like a good helper. So I wasn't thinking about it but we just slammed the panels in an wired everything. Hi leg of course fried a bunch stuff. Crew leader A and crew leader B blamed each other, one for not communicating the other for not checking. I figure it was everyone's fault. For over a decade the hi leg subject would come up and start them arguing all over again.

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I'd lean a tad more responsibility on the guy turning the power back on more so than the guy that turned it off.
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Old 02-03-2017, 05:04 PM   #23
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How is there a high leg issue with a 2-pole breaker?
Siemens shipped out my special order Delta panel with a two pole breaker, intended to feed a sub panel, connected to A and B.
If they had shipped it with a 3 pole breaker, I could have made it happen.
Just a note to others ordering a delta panel, make sure to only order 3 pole breakers to avoid problems like this.
I have some pics, Ill get them up.
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Old 02-03-2017, 06:31 PM   #24
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Being one of the first cities to be electrified, how is it that, through all the iterations of wiring systems, there are no 4-wire delta systems?
ConEd supplys 3-phase Y at 120/208 or 277/480. Anything other than that you provide yourself. Virtually every residence, even in the outer boroughs, gets 120/208. (2 phases from a 3 phase distribution network.)
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Old 02-03-2017, 08:46 PM   #25
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ConEd supplys 3-phase Y at 120/208 or 277/480. Anything other than that you provide yourself. Virtually every residence, even in the outer boroughs, gets 120/208. (2 phases from a 3 phase distribution network.)
I see. But what about in older systems still in use? Surely there were 4-wire deltas used in the industrial areas from the 30s until the 80s like the rest of the country. Did they replace them all?
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Old 02-03-2017, 09:40 PM   #26
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Oh. I see.

When he mentioned only 2 and 3 pole breakers, I figured this was going to be a panel they used for 208V only.
A high leg on 208?
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Old 02-03-2017, 09:42 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Suncoast Power View Post
Siemens shipped out my special order Delta panel with a two pole breaker, intended to feed a sub panel, connected to A and B.
If they had shipped it with a 3 pole breaker, I could have made it happen.
Just a note to others ordering a delta panel, make sure to only order 3 pole breakers to avoid problems like this.
I have some pics, Ill get them up.
Blame Siemens all you want. In the end this was your fuchup.
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:45 AM   #28
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well at least he had the guts to admit he screwed up!some would rather not talk about it. thanks for sharing, we all screw up, learn from it & move on!
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Old 02-04-2017, 07:31 AM   #29
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well at least he had the guts to admit he screwed up!some would rather not talk about it. thanks for sharing, we all screw up, learn from it & move on!
Sometimes getting it off your chest outside of your crew is cathartic.
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Old 02-04-2017, 07:47 AM   #30
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Most of the small commercial and light industrial building here use a hi-leg.
I am usually very aware of what can happen and I was very familiar with the building.
I'll admit that I have been a bit complacent these days and not double checking.
As mentioned:
This is a pic of the 100 amp that came from the factory setup on A and B with a sticker on the top of the panel showing the Hi-leg as B.



This is the 150.
Interestingly, the replacement fingers were slightly different. I couldn't just remove C and install the new B hardware, Both A and B needed to be changed to make them fit onto the line side of the breaker.
This, of course, is the before pic:



I cant blame Siemens as I did order it as an MDP. They evenly distribute the single phase/ two pole breakers assuming they were 240 volt loads and not panels.
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Old 02-04-2017, 07:57 AM   #31
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Not to keep hammering this but,
notice the polaris tap at the bottom of the panel.
I had them pull that C phase off of the breaker and using that polaris tap, connect it to B phase at the top of the panelboard.
Notice the little orange sticker at the top near the main lugs.



Before we get all judgemental, let me confess, the panel is fed temporary with those 250 AL off of very scary vintage 600 amp fused disconnect.
We demoed the meter between the 600 amp main and tossed it in the trash and went direct.
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Old 02-04-2017, 09:59 AM   #32
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If that was a pretty old panel, before the code requirement to 'B' Phase, a lot of guys put the High Leg on the 'C' Phase.

Sent from my 1911-A1
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Old 02-04-2017, 10:25 AM   #33
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My first dealings with a high leg was at a school hooking in a temporary panel. I was a third year apprentice at the time, and probably didn't belong working by myself in the first place. Crummy company. Anyways went to test the single phase panel after I turned it on, and every other gfi was off. And smelled like I let the magic smoke out of. The panel I fed it from did have an odd amount of every third breaker being blanked off which should be a dead giveaway, just not enough for a third year being told that high leg is to be marked with orange tape. Where's the friggin orange tape I asked my foremen. Oh well. Lesson learned and only costed 4 gfi receptacles.
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:59 PM   #34
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If that was a pretty old panel, before the code requirement to 'B' Phase, a lot of guys put the High Leg on the 'C' Phase.

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That's very common on older panels around here.

Newer panels it's B and orange.
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Old 02-04-2017, 04:01 PM   #35
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I see. But what about in older systems still in use? Surely there were 4-wire deltas used in the industrial areas from the 30s until the 80s like the rest of the country. Did they replace them all?
They must have because I've never encountered them. They do still exist out here on Long Island though.

Keep in mind in NYC, an industrial area can exist right across the street from a residential area, and commercial is all over the place on every major thoroughfare, think rows of stores under apartments. There never really was a specific area where shopping is done, there is no clear delineation.

Housing communities were built around the factories, ConEd was smart to use a distribution system that could work for everyone.

For those who wanted something different, it's common to find buildings with basement access to vaults located under the sidewalk and street, for customer-specific transformers. (No customer access though.)
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