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Old 04-15-2012, 10:25 PM   #1
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Default Was my electrician negligent?

Hello All

I recently got my electrician to put a 3 phase plug onto a European commercial mixer (we are in Australia).

After they had fitted the plug, they realised it wouldnt fit into the 3 phase socket. The plug was 5 pin and the socket was 4 pin. (Side question: He didnt actually check this first - would it have been ok to wire a 3 phase machine with a 4 pin?)

So, bc it didnt fit they needed to replace the 3 phase socket. He did this and it didnt work. We tested it on another 3 phase socket, and it did work. He realised that he hadnt wired the neutral.

He did this. Two days later we used the machine - lots of burning and blackening around the socket. One guy thinks that the machine was rotating in the wrong way. This is a bit worrying for me, as I know how dangerous 3 phase can be.

He is coming back to fix it today (4 days later).

Obviously I am not looking for a legal opinion, just what you think would be reasonable to expect from a qualified electrician. I am concerned as we were thinking of using him to do some more sophisticated work - but after this happened we are less confident.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:02 AM   #2
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It sounds like a series of mis-steps on his behalf.


At some point as a customer I might have called for a second opinion, another firm (EXTRA MONEY) or the guys boss.

I doubt reverse rotation would cause the issue, unless this is belt drive equipment.

Did you operate the equipment after he finished his install?

Did it operate adequately?

Where did the smoke come from?

An old electricians joke, once that smoke gets out it is expensive and difficult to get it back in the appliance.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:20 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveyjones
Hello All

I recently got my electrician to put a 3 phase plug onto a European commercial mixer (we are in Australia).

After they had fitted the plug, they realised it wouldnt fit into the 3 phase socket. The plug was 5 pin and the socket was 4 pin. (Side question: He didnt actually check this first - would it have been ok to wire a 3 phase machine with a 4 pin?)

So, bc it didnt fit they needed to replace the 3 phase socket. He did this and it didnt work. We tested it on another 3 phase socket, and it did work. He realised that he hadnt wired the neutral.

He did this. Two days later we used the machine - lots of burning and blackening around the socket. One guy thinks that the machine was rotating in the wrong way. This is a bit worrying for me, as I know how dangerous 3 phase can be.

He is coming back to fix it today (4 days later).

Obviously I am not looking for a legal opinion, just what you think would be reasonable to expect from a qualified electrician. I am concerned as we were thinking of using him to do some more sophisticated work - but after this happened we are less confident.
Your machine needs a neutral. It doesn't sound like one was available since the original socket was 4 pin. He probably (just guessing) bootlegged a neutral onto the ground in the box, but that is only a guess. If there was actually a spare neutral in the box that originally was not being used, he certainly could have made it work it correctly. It sounds like you needed a L22-20p , L22-30p, L22-50p, or L22-60p depending on what apmerage the machine is.

Last edited by mcclary's electrical; 04-16-2012 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:30 AM   #4
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As far as reverse rotation goes, that's more of a mechanical issue. Motors don't care, but the machine might. Did it come with documentation, tags or a manual? Did he read it. Customers comment all the time when I start reading the manual. Which leads me to believe most electricians don't.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:43 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backstay View Post
As far as reverse rotation goes, that's more of a mechanical issue. Motors don't care, but the machine might. Did it come with documentation, tags or a manual? Did he read it. Customers comment all the time when I start reading the manual. Which leads me to believe most electricians don't.
I get the funny look when I read the manual, but all machines are not
created the same.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:12 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincy electic

I get the funny look when I read the manual, but all machines are not
created the same.
You mean, you don't just know how to wire everything? No sir, they didn't teach us everything in school. I figure, better the funny look while I'm reading the manual, then the funny look as the smoke is clearing.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:24 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincy electic View Post
I get the funny look when I read the manual, but all machines are not
created the same.
Me to, people assume you don't know what you're doing because you're reading the manual. People are stupid.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:25 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveyjones View Post
Hello All

I recently got my electrician to put a 3 phase plug onto a European commercial mixer (we are in Australia).

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Obviously I am not looking for a legal opinion, just what you think would be reasonable to expect from a qualified electrician. I am concerned as we were thinking of using him to do some more sophisticated work - but after this happened we are less confident.
Consider what Brian John said above, concerning the repair of the existing work he did, as far as having him do more sophisticated work, NO WAY!
This guy made too many rookie mistakes.
I wouldn't let him work on any of your other work. If he is not checking a simple receptacle to plug, how can you have confidence he will check the proper voltages, etc?

Did you make sure that he was licensed, and insured? Does he have a regular company? If you didn't make sure of this, you could be setting up for a bigger problem for yourself if you let him continue.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:00 PM   #9
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Ya guys.,

If you did catch the OP location and this OP is NOT in North Americane side at all. This OP is from Aussie location.

Now let me address to OP if the so called electrician make a mistake on connection on the mixer then probly he don't have a large experanice on full triphase system and when that unit do required 5 pin socket that mean it have to bring out netural to run the machine for some reason.

Also was this mixer is wired for 240 volt triphase or 415 volts triphase ?

You may want have a second electrician to come out and verify the rest of the system you have there.

Oh yeah I am kinda suprised that you did not trip the RCD at all.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:11 PM   #10
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I thought this was professional site, yet two (2) moderators are participating.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Valdes View Post
I thought this was professional site, yet two (2) moderators are participating.
I also sent an alert at 7-8 this morning, I guess we can now give advice to diy'ers. Where's Mark, he wouldn't stand for this.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Valdes View Post
I thought this was professional site, yet two (2) moderators are participating.
I made a decision (as we have done in the past) to guide this poster in the right direction regarding his electrical problem. We are not giving DIY advice, we have all said GET A QUALIFIED electrician. I believe this is sound advice.

I do not see this as as a issue. Should you have complaints file them with Nathan or Marc and ask I be removed for incompetence.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Valdes View Post
I thought this was professional site, yet two (2) moderators are participating.
Do you want your membership dues refunded or something?
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