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Old 01-10-2013, 07:43 PM   #1
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Default My failed inspection

I get a call to install a new service riser on the side of this bank owned home. I go look at it and it is about a 5 year old service 1 1/4 emt going from the service drop to the meter socket, then 2/2/4 SEU from the socket to a 100 main breaker load center right inside the house. The 1 1/4 EMT was ripped off when a tree limb fell on the POCO wire. Easy fix, install a new hub and 10' of emt with wire, new house knob and cleaned up the inside panel a bit. Call the local building/electric/plumbing inspector and get a red tag. Here is the best part, because SE is not allowed to be used as installed and the 4 bare GEC going to the meter socket is touching the metal siding, which would in turn energize it. No local amendments either. I told him to site me a code section and he is working on that tonight.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:53 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbednarik View Post
I get a call to install a new service riser on the side of this bank owned home. I go look at it and it is about a 5 year old service 1 1/4 emt going from the service drop to the meter socket, then 2/2/4 SEU from the socket to a 100 main breaker load center right inside the house. The 1 1/4 EMT was ripped off when a tree limb fell on the POCO wire. Easy fix, install a new hub and 10' of emt with wire, new house knob and cleaned up the inside panel a bit. Call the local building/electric/plumbing inspector and get a red tag. Here is the best part, because SE is not allowed to be used as installed and the 4 bare GEC going to the meter socket is touching the metal siding, which would in turn energize it. No local amendments either. I told him to site me a code section and he is working on that tonight.
Another dream world inspector....
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:55 PM   #3
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IF... the inspector can come up with a code section please post it... haven't laughed real good in a while.

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Old 01-10-2013, 07:59 PM   #4
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I explained to him that the SE was allowed and where to find it in the code book, told him to check art 250 while he was in there. I think some of it is I am not local, and his buddy john p cobbler did not get the easy job.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:59 PM   #5
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Interestingly enough, I would bet you do actually have current flow on the GEC and siding, but not for the reason the inspector thinks: The neutral is bonded to the meter socket, which is touching the siding, and now you've got a parallel path to any grounded object touching the siding as well.

I'm sure this is a very common installation, and I honestly don't think it would ever be a problem, just thinking out loud.
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:44 PM   #6
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He sites me for the se cable in an area prone to phyical damage. I think it was 328.12. It is in a back yard, and he said you could reach it. I told him that is not physical damage. Now he says if the utility is ok with it he will ok it. Never met such a spineless inspector in my life. He dropped the bare gec thing too.
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:56 PM   #7
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He sites me for the se cable in an area prone to phyical damage. I think it was 328.12. It is in a back yard, and he said you could reach it. I told him that is not physical damage. Now he says if the utility is ok with it he will ok it. Never met such a spineless inspector in my life. He dropped the bare gec thing too.
That's so funny
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:17 AM   #8
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I agree 100% with Big John. It may not be a violation but lets just pretend the utility grounded neutral brakes and there is no system ground. Current will flow on the siding and an uninsulated GEC contributes to it, or anywhere a copper pipe (like a hose bib) contacts the siding. So I agree with the inspector in this case.
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:50 AM   #9
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I agree 100% with Big John. It may not be a violation but lets just pretend the utility grounded neutral brakes and there is no system ground. Current will flow on the siding and an uninsulated GEC contributes to it, or anywhere a copper pipe (like a hose bib) contacts the siding. So I agree with the inspector in this case.
I agree. That's the issue with stray voltage
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:12 AM   #10
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Anything grounded connected to the siding will also contribute to this. Any receptacle, light, meter can, anything. Not just the bare 6. I can insulate it, run it in pvc and will still have the EGC system connected to the siding.
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:27 AM   #11
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...I can insulate it, run it in pvc and will still have the EGC system connected to the siding.
Agreed. And the inspector was probably thinking the current would be coming from the GEC, which is why he's off his rocker.

The only solutions would've been to do the service conductors in plastic and insulate the meter can from the siding somehow? Or you could've used a meter main combo and made the system bond at that point. Though my bet is the vast majority of services on aluminum siding are done your way.

Last edited by Big John; 01-12-2013 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:36 AM   #12
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But what if the siding came in contact with an ungrounded conductor? Wouldn't you want it bonded in this case?

I couldn't find anything specific in 250 other than "structural metal", but in 550 (Mobile Homes), metal siding is considered bonded in these cases:

Quote:
550.16 Grounding.
(C) Bonding of Non–Current-Carrying Metal Parts.
(4) Metallic Roof and Exterior Coverings.
Any metallic
roof and exterior covering shall be considered bonded if the
following conditions are met:
(1) The metal panels overlap one another and are securely
attached to the wood or metal frame parts by metallic
fasteners.
(2) The lower panel of the metallic exterior covering is
secured by metallic fasteners at a cross member of the
chassis by two metal straps per mobile home unit or
section at opposite ends.
The bonding strap material shall be a minimum of
100 mm (4 in.) in width of material equivalent to the skin
or a material of equal or better electrical conductivity. The
straps shall be fastened with paint-penetrating fittings such
as screws and starwashers or equivalent.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:30 PM   #13
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update. The inspector met with the utility engineer and decided that all of the other stuff is now ok, but i need to caulk around the se cable where it goes through the connector at the bottom of the meter socket because it is not weather tight. I explained to him that it is below the lowest level of energized parts and does not require a weather tight connection. He is looking that up tonight.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:36 PM   #14
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He is looking that up tonight.

Wow, that guy hates you.


You must be a real d**k.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:39 PM   #15
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I predict you should have power to that house sometime in 2015.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:01 PM   #16
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...He is looking that up tonight.
I'm trying to remember where in the code it says water doesn't flow up hill, I think it was section ID.10(t)
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:23 PM   #17
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Wow, that guy hates you.


You must be a real d**k.
That's the weird part. I am being as pleasant as I can telling him he is a dumb ****.
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