Neutral v.s. Grounded conductor? - Page 2 - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:02 PM   #21
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I'll just shut up............
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:02 PM   #22
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Here is the second part in the ongoing training series how to locate and fish wire professionally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdL3_...eature=related
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:35 PM   #23
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Can anyone further simplify the distinction between a neutral and a grounded conductor (branch cir. neutral v.s. service grounded conductor (some call neutral) ??

Hypothetically,

If someone goes up and cuts the grounded conductor on line side of service drop what would happen inside the house ??? Everything metal in house gets hot ??
After reading all the posts in this thread , I don't see why you are all stomping on Cletis, when you all missed the important fact: No Cletis, you would still need to have a fault before all the metal in the house becomes "hot". However you will cause the remaining two power legs to have voltage swings dependent
on the load imposed on either of them being unbalanced. So if the loading is a little unbalanced, the voltage will be a small swing up or down on one side, with the opposite and equal swing away from 120 v to ground on the other leg. A heavy load like 70 amps or so and you are going to see some dangerous swings up and down on the two remaining conductors, which can then cause electronic devices plugged into the system to start burning. It ain't good....
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:38 PM   #24
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After reading all the posts in this thread , I don't see why you are all stomping on Cletis, when you all missed the important fact: No Cletis, you would still need to have a fault before all the metal in the house becomes "hot". However you will cause the remaining two power legs to have voltage swings dependent
on the load imposed on either of them being unbalanced. So if the loading is a little unbalanced, the voltage will be a small swing up or down on one side, with the opposite and equal swing away from 120 v to ground on the other leg. A heavy load like 70 amps or so and you are going to see some dangerous swings up and down on the two remaining conductors, which can then cause electronic devices plugged into the system to start burning. It ain't good....
Have you ever seen this happen? Would the plumbing and such become energized?
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:46 PM   #25
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Have you ever seen this happen? Would the plumbing and such become energized?
Bout a hundred times would be my guess. To further add, the water piping system from the point where the gec clamp is connected to the other structures nearby connected likewise will carry your unbalanced return current (a bunch of it anyway) so the water piping system can have potentially fatal current in it, regardless of any ground fault or no ground fault in the system. But unless the interior piping has additional places in it that are "grounded" that piping downstream of the gec connection point should not see a current flow. However lots of plumbers install copper water pipes without insulation on them under slabs, so........
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:49 PM   #26
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you trolled 4 cletis, good catch
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:53 PM   #27
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you trolled 4 cletis, good catch
Three... I just had nothing better to do while waiting on my breakfast to be served....
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Old 04-15-2012, 02:48 PM   #28
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For most of us, the neutral is the grounded conductor. I was once asked what the difference was between a ground and a neutral. My answer was the ground should only carry fault current and the neutral carries current during a normal operation. The reason I answered this way is that most of the time, the neutral and ground are at the same potential and if you hook your load to a "hot" and a "ground" it will work (although it creates a condition for someone to get shocked).

The Neutral and grounding conductor are the same potential, ONLY, at the neutral bond connection or when there is no load on the circuit.
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Old 04-15-2012, 02:51 PM   #29
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The Neutral and grounding conductor are the same potential, ONLY, at the neutral bond connection or when there is no load on the circuit.
True, and the phase conductors are at the same potential as the neutral at the zero crossing. I didn't think we were getting this technical though.
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Old 04-15-2012, 07:09 PM   #30
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So, some grounding conductors are neutrals and some are not?

Are all neutrals grounding conductors or none so some??

Is a conductor of a corner ground 240V delta neutral or grounded conductor or neither ?
Grounding conductors are NOT neutrals. A conductor that is intentionally GROUNDED at the service is either a neutral or a grounding conductor. The conductor that is intended to carry circuit current is the neutral.
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Old 04-15-2012, 10:19 PM   #31
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Cletoris...
I choked on my dinner.

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Old 04-15-2012, 10:25 PM   #32
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Default Corner Grounded System

So, on a corner grounded system say when the C phase is grounded is it called the grounded neutral conductor or a grounded phase conductor ??
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Old 04-15-2012, 10:37 PM   #33
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So, on a corner grounded system say when the C phase is grounded is it called the grounded neutral conductor or a grounded phase conductor ??
Neither. It is the grounded conductor.

It's not a neutral because there is no voltage-neutral point in a corner-grounded delta system.

It's no longer a phase conductor because it's been grounded.

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Old 04-15-2012, 10:40 PM   #34
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Neither. It is the grounded conductor.

It's not a neutral because there is no voltage-neutral point in a corner-grounded delta system.

It's no longer a phase conductor because it's been grounded.

-John
Then what's up with this I lifted off of an IAEI article

"Summary

Installations and inspections of corner-grounded systems can be a bit intimidating both to seasoned veterans and to students of the Code. All the rules for grounded conductors must be applied identically to the grounded conductors of all systems, whether the grounded conductor is a grounded neutral conductor or a grounded phase conductor. "
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Old 04-15-2012, 11:25 PM   #35
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It's symantics: To the code, it's a grounded conductor.

Any leg or phase of a transformer can be theoretically be grounded, so I don't see much value in the term "grounded phase conductor." It's like calling one side of a control transformer the "grounded hot leg."

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Old 04-16-2012, 06:55 AM   #36
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It's symantics: To the code, it's a grounded conductor.

Any leg or phase of a transformer can be theoretically be grounded, so I don't see much value in the term "grounded phase conductor." It's like calling one side of a control transformer the "grounded hot leg."

-John

While I agree, with your statement, the corner grounded conductor is a phase conductor.
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