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Old 05-31-2012, 03:47 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Theriot
Start a rumor that blue boxes give you male performance issues.
Had a girlfriend once that gave me blue boxes!!!
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:40 PM   #102
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It's an old joke that blues = handyman/homeowner/hack.




My thought is, making laws that are impossible to enforce =
It not a joke.It's true
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:36 PM   #103
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All too often, a flipper will simply say, "I bought this house so I can fix it up and live in it."

It gets all doodied up, then put on the market....... and no one at the AHJ is ever the wiser.

There should be a process that when a house goes on the market after just being sold/purchased within a year that a plumbing,electrical and building inspector have to review it.
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:39 PM   #104
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There should be a process that when a house goes on the market after just being sold/purchased within a year that a plumbing,electrical and building inspector have to review it.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda.
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:41 PM   #105
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When my folks lived in Maryland, they found that they were not allowed to purchase gas pipe and fittings. I really ought to visit the Home Depot in Oxon Hill, just to see how many aisles are missing. I do not know if the prohibitions applied to other plumbing or electrical work.

The sad thing is any joe schmo can buy anything at the depot or lowes, yet they ID you for freaking spray paint. Why not have a form for plumbing and electrical supplies to where you supply the permit number or show a professional license.
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Old 05-31-2012, 07:27 PM   #106
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You guys are so passionate.

Just curious, so in america, if the home owner wires his own house does he need to submit any paper work to the authoritys, ie MD(max demand), electrical plans, notices to commence work and notices for completion?

Also, if a home owner wires his own home, and sells the house, and the house burns down due to electrical fault, is the home owner liable.
Inspections and permits are required in areas that actually have them (some don't) even for homeowner work.

As for liability, I'm not sure how to answer that one.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:05 PM   #107
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Inspections and permits are required in areas that actually have them (some don't) even for homeowner work.

As for liability, I'm not sure how to answer that one.

So then the question becomes, what recourse do you have if you purchase a property, and the outlets were wired with cat5 by the previous owner, and when your first born plugs his gameboy into the outlet, burn the house down with him and his mother in the house while you were at work.

Are you as confident to trust another home owners wiring as you do your own.

For the sake of logic and argument... yeah I tottaly agree, your house, your rules, "a man's home, is his castle", but at the same time, I believe some accountability need to be taken by the home owner, if they carry out work and that work causes harm, I believe they should be held accountable, just as you would of anyone that harms you or your property.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:06 PM   #108
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Just wait. In a year or so when the feds decide its another revenue source they never really tapped yet (today and yesterday they raided a bunch of tour buses and gave em huge safety violation fines) there will be some huge fines for doing unlicensed electrical work, or having had some done in your dwelling. Them drones aren't going to fly just to check the weather and traffic.....
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:30 PM   #109
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So then the question becomes, what recourse do you have if you purchase a property, and the outlets were wired with cat5 by the previous owner, and when your first born plugs his gameboy into the outlet, burn the house down with him and his mother in the house while you were at work.

Are you as confident to trust another home owners wiring as you do your own.

For the sake of logic and argument... yeah I tottaly agree, your house, your rules, "a man's home, is his castle", but at the same time, I believe some accountability need to be taken by the home owner, if they carry out work and that work causes harm, I believe they should be held accountable, just as you would of anyone that harms you or your property.

You generally only have recourse during the negotiation for purchase.....homes are generally sold "as is" [even if the listing doesn't state that].
The buyer has an obligation to perform his own due diligence.
Failing to do so leaves the buyer with no recourse after the sale has transpired.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:25 PM   #110
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It's one thing to do wiring in your own house, however once you cover the walls and put that home on the market it's someone else's problem to live, or die with. Spend a few bucks and get the work inspected!
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:34 AM   #111
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Every payment that goes to a government entity is not automatically a tax.

A tax is something widely collected regardless of individual use. I don't have kids, and yet I pay for Massachusetts schools through my taxes.

A fee is something assessed individually depending on a service rendered: I will never be charged for permitting unless I desire to have a permit pulled.

I do think onerous or expensive permitting is entirely counter-productive, though: If the goal really is public safety, then making people jump through hoops is hardly a means to ensure compliance.

With that said: If inspections are supposed to be the only guarantor of propriety, then I would expect a higher inspection fee because I would expect the inspectors to take a whole lot more time examining jobs.

Licensing is a means to help protect the public, not the interest of the contractor. And an inspection, to me, is a last-line-of-defense in protecting that public interest, not the first.

-John
Wiki seems to agree with me and MD:

To tax (from the Latin taxo; "I estimate") is to impose a financial charge or other levy upon a taxpayer (an individual or legal entity) by a state or the functional equivalent of a state such that failure to pay is punishable by law. Taxes are also imposed by many administrative divisions. Taxes consist of direct tax or indirect tax, and may be paid in money or as its labour equivalent (often but not always unpaid labour).
A tax may be defined as a "pecuniary burden laid upon individuals or property owners to support the government [...] a payment exacted by legislative authority."[1] A tax "is not a voluntary payment or donation, but an enforced contribution, exacted pursuant to legislative authority" and is "any contribution imposed by government [...] whether under the name of toll, tribute, tallage, gabel, impost, duty, custom, excise, subsidy, aid, supply, or other name."[1]

Further to the issue of inspections; my point is that laws that are essentially intended to make it difficult or impossible for a homeowner to care for or improve his property are against the principles of this country, namely essential freedoms. If safety is the intent of the government, then inspections should be affordable and easily obtained. The code for an ahj should be easily accessible to anyone, not something that requires a major investment and a research assistant. Basically, make it easy, and people will do it. Make it costly and mysterious, and people will skirt it. We see it constantly, so there's no debating that people will ignore codes and inspections. When you ask a homeowner why he didn't get a permit, pay attention to the typical answers. I most often hear that it costs too much ($300 to plunk a small shed in the backyard? $200 to have some circuits extended *to meet code*?) and that it's a hassle (schedule inspection, inspector's a no-show, and they DON'T give H/O's a break) that they can't deal with.
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