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Old 12-30-2017, 03:35 PM   #21
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There shouldn't be that type of connections inside the device that melted plastic would do as described, doesn't sound legit to me.
It could be an intermittent problem upstream & it will be back.
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Old 12-30-2017, 03:58 PM   #22
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It could be an intermittent problem upstream & it will be back.
Gfci is literally 6' from it's breaker. Could be breaker going bad, it's a GE 20A

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Old 12-30-2017, 04:07 PM   #23
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I have seen this before, it was a poor connection upstream of the GFCI device.
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Old 12-30-2017, 04:10 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by electrabbit6 View Post
So I have ran into this issue a few times in my career and it again just happened yesterday.
Got a call, no power to gfci in bathroom. It's a new plug and wire. Ran from it's own breaker 10 feet away in panel. It's a small apt. I pulled device out of box, wires still attached and put volt meter to screws. Nothing. Phase-ground. Nothing. And yes breaker was on. So I remove device, put meter across hot-neutral, 123v. Phase-ground, 123v. I put device back on wire, Nothing!
Why am I reading voltage when no device is on the line? Again, this has happened a few times and some of my more seasoned friends don't understand it either. Any input would be great. Thanks.

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If there was enough melted plastic on the screws, you would have visually seen it.
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Old 12-30-2017, 04:18 PM   #25
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about a month ago just after thanksgiving I got
a service call request.

Lady said BOTH front and back yard weatherproof
outlets quit working..I'm thinking , I already know
what this is cause I'm familiar with the area and these homes
are relatively new
...

I'm thinking it's gotta be a gfci unit in the basement ,
probably at the panel ...tripped off or breaker tripped...

If that's not it , I'm thinking there should be a j box in
the basement ceiling , load side of basement gfci ...
maybe connection is sloppy.

I get there it's neither...Both outlet receptacles are GFCI
receptacle outlets and fed from nearest point inside home
front & back.

Both gfci's are shot...neither would reset , both Leviton.

Went up to store , got new ones , installed them ,
collected $$. What is up with Leviton?
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Old 12-30-2017, 05:40 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by lighterup View Post
about a month ago just after thanksgiving I got
a service call request.

Lady said BOTH front and back yard weatherproof
outlets quit working..I'm thinking , I already know
what this is cause I'm familiar with the area and these homes
are relatively new
...

I'm thinking it's gotta be a gfci unit in the basement ,
probably at the panel ...tripped off or breaker tripped...

If that's not it , I'm thinking there should be a j box in
the basement ceiling , load side of basement gfci ...
maybe connection is sloppy.

I get there it's neither...Both outlet receptacles are GFCI
receptacle outlets and fed from nearest point inside home
front & back.

Both gfci's are shot...neither would reset , both Leviton.

Went up to store , got new ones , installed them ,
collected $$. What is up with Leviton?
You know how the Leviton units are more compact than the others? I wonder if they are cramming stuff in way to tight and it is causing issues/failures with heat.

I have noticed a lot that I have replaced were all way to warm.
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Old 12-30-2017, 06:46 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by electrabbit6 View Post
Gfci is literally 6' from it's breaker. Could be breaker going bad, it's a GE 20A

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Mixing Leviton and GE should be a capital offense.
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Old 12-30-2017, 07:10 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Switched View Post
You know how the Leviton units are more compact than the others? I wonder if they are cramming stuff in way to tight and it is causing issues/failures with heat.

I have noticed a lot that I have replaced were all way to warm.

leviton has their fair share of faulty gfci but their products are readily available to many suppliers (generally at lower cost)
and any merchant is going to go to the products they can make more profit on.
i have seen new units dead out of the box,
manufacturers cut back on quality control and more faulty equipment gets out.
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Old 12-30-2017, 07:40 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lighterup View Post
about a month ago just after thanksgiving I got
a service call request.

Lady said BOTH front and back yard weatherproof
outlets quit working..I'm thinking , I already know
what this is cause I'm familiar with the area and these homes
are relatively new
...

I'm thinking it's gotta be a gfci unit in the basement ,
probably at the panel ...tripped off or breaker tripped...

If that's not it , I'm thinking there should be a j box in
the basement ceiling , load side of basement gfci ...
maybe connection is sloppy.

I get there it's neither...Both outlet receptacles are GFCI
receptacle outlets and fed from nearest point inside home
front & back.

Both gfci's are shot...neither would reset , both Leviton.

Went up to store , got new ones , installed them ,
collected $$. What is up with Leviton?
Were they WR GFCI's? If not, they are assured to failed quickly. I've used Leviton for years now with very little trouble. I only had one WR burn up because a motor that was plugged into it seized and fried it somehow, but otherwise no issues.
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Old 12-30-2017, 07:42 PM   #30
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Mixing Leviton and GE should be a capital offense.
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Old 12-30-2017, 08:12 PM   #31
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Were they WR GFCI's? If not, they are assured to failed quickly. I've used Leviton for years now with very little trouble. I only had one WR burn up because a motor that was plugged into it seized and fried it somehow, but otherwise no issues.
originals were not WP...House was not that old , but it might be of
age where they were not required at the time of build.

The odd thing ( according to HO) they noticed both seemed
to crap out at the same time , though differing circuits feeding
each one
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:55 PM   #32
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Electrabbit6. I sent you a PM. Please answer my question. Thanks.
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Old 12-30-2017, 11:20 PM   #33
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Electrabbit6. I sent you a PM. Please answer my question. Thanks.
I sent you a response

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Old 12-31-2017, 01:20 AM   #34
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If I'm right and it is Leviton, ever since NEMA has requested (required?) they produce gfi outlets with self testing capability , self testing failures resulting in device total failure has become commonplace. It's just like faulty afci breakers, you spend money twice and the company gets rich. I can't wait till car manufacturer's learn all about this new scam........
Car manufacturers already have their own version, it's called OBD II.
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Old 12-31-2017, 04:25 AM   #35
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i would test your tester on a known live circuit.. try a different GFI first... plug in a hole hawg or super hawg put a 13 amp load on that thing.. if the problem persists , check connections ahead of this wire, if its a home run then the breaker/neutral/ground bus or someone hung a picture and hit the wire.. i have seen that.
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Old 12-31-2017, 12:12 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by electrabbit6 View Post
... I pulled device out of box, wires still attached and put volt meter to screws. Nothing. Phase-ground. Nothing. And yes breaker was on. So I remove device, put meter across hot-neutral, 123v. Phase-ground, 123v. I put device back on wire, Nothing!
There is a way this can happen.

INSIDE of the GFCI receptacle there is a little PC board with the electronics, and that PCB has its own internal power supply circuit, taking the 120VAC down to (probably) 5VDC for the little chip set in there. If that power supply circuit gets a little high resistance short on the AC side, such as it burning up and leaving a carbon trace on the board, a DMM may read through that and on a voltage reading setting, shows there is no potential difference line to neutral. Normally that would be a cause of enough short circuit current to trip the breaker, but if the short is of high enough resistance, it won't allow enough current through, it acts like a current limiting resistor. It's only letting enough potential show through it to fool a DMM. Then of course because the GFCI power supply is toast, the unit can't function and stays in a tripped condition that cannot be reset.

Then when you remove the wires and measure between them, you have removed that short, so you see the potential difference in between them and it appears normal. As others have said, use a Wiggy tester and I'd bet that it will show 120V across the screws with the wires connected.

You youngsters trust your electronic gizmos too much... And get off my lawn!!!
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Old 12-31-2017, 12:19 PM   #37
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There is a way this can happen.

INSIDE of the GFCI receptacle there is a little PC board with the electronics, and that PCB has its own internal power supply circuit, taking the 120VAC down to (probably) 5VDC for the little chip set in there. If that power supply circuit gets a little high resistance short on the AC side, such as it burning up and leaving a carbon trace on the board, a DMM may read through that and on a voltage reading setting, shows there is no potential difference line to neutral. Normally that would be a cause of enough short circuit current to trip the breaker, but if the short is of high enough resistance, it won't allow enough current through, it acts like a current limiting resistor. It's only letting enough potential show through it to fool a DMM. Then of course because the GFCI power supply is toast, the unit can't function and stays in a tripped condition that cannot be reset.

Then when you remove the wires and measure between them, you have removed that short, so you see the potential difference in between them and it appears normal. As others have said, use a Wiggy tester and I'd bet that it will show 120V across the screws with the wires connected.

You youngsters trust your electronic gizmos too much... And get off my lawn!!!
That makes alot of sense. Thank you. Engineer background ?? I had thought of something along those lines, but assumed I was thinking way to hard into an obvious answer

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Old 12-31-2017, 01:15 PM   #38
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Gfci's fail in the open position now also. There could be many older non functioning gfci's out there that haven't been tested or reset.

I've replaced three leviton gfci's this year that were less than a year old that had failed the self test. One was WR.
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Old 12-31-2017, 01:50 PM   #39
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Gfci's fail in the open position now also. There could be many older non functioning gfci's out there that haven't been tested or reset.

I've replaced three leviton gfci's this year that were less than a year old that had failed the self test. One was WR.
Probably all three came from HD
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Old 12-31-2017, 03:35 PM   #40
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Reading your original post I thought the same as others Ghost voltage or bad conn. If you were checking on the line side screws the plastic melted don't make sense. I have had this problem many times and mostly check the hot with my tick tester after meter was showing no power. Found out the hard way that the screw head on the hot side was non conductive for some reason. It was just the top of the screw where you would stick the meter probe. I found that there was some sort of coating on the top cause after scraping it showed power. BTW these were also Leviton. I wonder if the gold color has some thing to do with it cause they also have a very high fail rate. Never took the time to investigate but maybe a rainy day thing to do. I,m starting to get some evil thoughts with varnish for teaching trouble shooting.
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