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Old 01-01-2018, 05:40 PM   #1
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Default Non-NEMA devices and NEC

Other than something general, such as 110.3, where does NEC prohibit installing a non-US (read: European) receptacle a US home?
I know that on the interwebz (from US suppliers, no less) you can find Schuko receptacles that will fit a US single-gang wall box, but I don't want to touch something like that.
Frequency and line-to-neutral vs. line-to-line voltage do not matter as much in this case -- it's a fairly low-tech double-insulated commercial steam ironing press.
I am pushing for installing a 6-15R or a 6-20R and changing the plug, but the client is now is talking about plugging in other Euro appliances, etc. etc.
I am inclined to walk, but before I do, aside from the obvious reasons (liability, etc.), what provision in the Code supports me?

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Old 01-01-2018, 06:06 PM   #2
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I can't point you to a code, but I wouldn't do it.

How about getting a couple Schuko power strips and cutting the plug off that and replacing that with a 6-15 or 6-20 male plug? That way you can put the proper receptacle in the wall and not have to modify the machine either.

https://www.amazon.com/KRI%C3%8BGER-...ko+power+strip
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Old 01-01-2018, 08:06 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by samgregger View Post
I can't point you to a code, but I wouldn't do it.

How about getting a couple Schuko power strips and cutting the plug off that and replacing that with a 6-15 or 6-20 male plug? That way you can put the proper receptacle in the wall and not have to modify the machine either.

https://www.amazon.com/KRI%C3%8BGER-...ko+power+strip
This is exactly what I would do.

There's nothing wrong with installing a NEMA 6-15 or 20 and no one will ever know who put the NEMA plug on the powerstrip.
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Old 01-01-2018, 08:16 PM   #4
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FWIW, there are other acceptable standards other than NEMA.

I would do as the others suggested. Install a normal receptacle and make up a dongle to plug into the standard receptacle and install whatever type of receptacles they want into an outdoor box with strain relief. As they get more equipment. have them buy more dongles from you.
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Old 01-01-2018, 08:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutmegger777 View Post
Other than something general, such as 110.3, where does NEC prohibit installing a non-US (read: European) receptacle a US home?
I know that on the interwebz (from US suppliers, no less) you can find Schuko receptacles that will fit a US single-gang wall box, but I don't want to touch something like that.
Frequency and line-to-neutral vs. line-to-line voltage do not matter as much in this case -- it's a fairly low-tech double-insulated commercial steam ironing press.
I am pushing for installing a 6-15R or a 6-20R and changing the plug, but the client is now is talking about plugging in other Euro appliances, etc. etc.
I am inclined to walk, but before I do, aside from the obvious reasons (liability, etc.), what provision in the Code supports me?
Are they listed? 406.3(A) requires that receptacles be listed.
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:18 AM   #6
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well i'll wager them listed somewhere Mulder

Q~ would 406.3F factor in?


Quote:
(F) Noninterchangeable Types. Receptacles connected to
circuits that have different voltages, frequencies, or types of
current (ac or dc) on the same premises shall be of such design
that the attachment plugs used on these circuits are not inter‐
changeable.
~CS~
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:25 AM   #7
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well i'll wager them listed somewhere Mulder

Q~ would 406.3F factor in?




~CS~
In many(most?) places "listed" means listed by a NRTL and I don't know if the receptacles in question would meet that condition. Listed does have a definition in Article 100.
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Old 01-02-2018, 01:47 AM   #8
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Jobs like this one are where an electrician should use his training and experience to decide if it is safe.
Not all jobs sit comfortably within code.
A schuko if it has the correct ratings and is the correct type
for the enviroment it is in would be safe to use !

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Old 01-02-2018, 03:34 AM   #9
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well i'll wager them listed somewhere Mulder

Q~ would 406.3F factor in?




~CS~
Since you have your codebook out, please let us know the article which supports your claim that a GEC is required to be bonded as it enters a panel, thanks.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:10 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulder View Post
Are they listed? 406.3(A) requires that receptacles be listed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicken steve View Post
well i'll wager them listed somewhere Mulder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulder View Post
In many(most?) places "listed" means listed by a NRTL and I don't know if the receptacles in question would meet that condition. Listed does have a definition in Article 100.
And the AHJ determines who's listings carry weight...

Quote:
Listed. Equipment, materials, or services included in a list published by an organization that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction and concerned with evaluation of products or services, that maintains periodic inspection of production of listed equipment or materials or periodic evaluation of services, and whose listing states that either the equipment, material, or services meets identified standards or has been tested and found suitable for a specified purpose.
So whatever receptacle you install has to be listed for the purpose by UL or other NRTL recognized by the AHJ. It's of course unlikely there's any European receptacle that meets that requirement.

So you're reduced to building an adapter. If you build a cord from NEMA standard plugs to be used at the intended voltage / amperage you're not on shaky ground, but making an adapter is not something I'd do. Why don't they just buy an adapter made for Germans travelling in the US? That's something you BUY, not BUILD.

https://www.amazon.com/GP-95-Schuko-.../dp/B0095FMXA6

This does not convert the voltage, but it would probably work for electronics with switching power supplies rated for a wide range of voltage.

For other appliances, they make transformers for the purpose:

https://www.amazon.com/LiteFuze-LT-3.../dp/B008GQTW7W

You could certainly build the same kind of transformer with Shucko outlets and a NEMA inlet, but I wouldn't, again this is one to buy not build.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:24 AM   #11
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If the cord on the equipment is not UL rated (probably not) then replace the cord and the male plug. Replacing a molded on plug with a standard plug is normally not allowed.
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Old 01-02-2018, 08:29 AM   #12
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I’ve had issues with equipment from Europe due to the volts to ground rating. Coffee machine would not work properly. I think they transform the voltage inside the unit and it did not like Canadian voltage applied.

In Canada, our 240 volts is 120 to ground but many spots in Europe they use a grounded 240 which is 240 to ground.

They bought an adapter but it also didn’t work.
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Old 01-02-2018, 02:03 PM   #13
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Well you already know that replacing the connector on the end is the right thing to do, but your customer tossed you a curve by asking you to accommodate OTHER undefined equipment. As you said, the difference in frequency for THIS piece of machinery was determined (by you I suppose) to not be an issue. But what's to stop the user from someday plugging in something that WILL make a difference?

A case in point would be anything with a centrifugal pump or blower. Sure, you can give him 240V at the Schuko outlet, but you CAN'T give him 50Hz, you will be giving him 60Hz, 120% of the machine's design frequency. An AC induction motor running a centrifugal machine will then increase speed to 120% of normal, so the load on the motor will increase by the CUBE of the difference in frequency; 1.2 x 1.2 x 1.2, to 173% of the motor design load! Hopefully something in that machine will trip out on overload, but what if it doesn't and a fire starts? An insurance investigator will find that Schuko outlet and declare it a non-approved installation, voiding the claim. Then someone might come after YOU for having done it, even though they ASKED you to, because "you should have known better".

I would just say no... I like the power strip idea better. Let them buy it.
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Old 01-02-2018, 06:24 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddy current View Post
Iíve had issues with equipment from Europe due to the volts to ground rating. Coffee machine would not work properly. I think they transform the voltage inside the unit and it did not like Canadian voltage applied.

In Canada, our 240 volts is 120 to ground but many spots in Europe they use a grounded 240 which is 240 to ground.

They bought an adapter but it also didnít work.
I had to run a circuit for a machine that was from
Belgium and it called for 3 phase (415 volts)..it
had a strnge looking plug on it that both of the
supply houses couldn't find a receptacle for.

I just cut of the plug and hooked up a fused safety switch
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Old 01-03-2018, 01:55 AM   #15
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Get the European Factory to fix it.

They will have a canned solution.

BTW, because of this new thing called the Internet, European manufacturers can be reached -- quicker than a phone call -- time zones be damned.

EVERY European nation requires a second language for its college students.

That second language is almost ALWAYS... ENGLISH.

Yup.

EVERY dang European tech desk can speak/ write English.

Yes, it's an absolute requirement.

English is the default language of European business. ( manufacturers )

ALL of them.

So, send their tech desk an e-mail or three... and wait for their response.

Otherwise, they're as lonely as a Maytag repairman.
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