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Old 02-15-2018, 08:31 AM   #1
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Default Old Furnas Size one starter

Good Morning.


I am hoping to find a vendor manual, or an expoloded parts diagram for this motor starter. It is a furnas size 1..i think. This motor starter supplies a 3 hp motor (connected for 480V operation).

Also it appears to be missing a front cover. I am hoping for this model, that there is something else keeping the carrier from falling out of the contactor base.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:42 AM   #2
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That is a cheap OEM type of starter. Just replace it. you will not find parts.
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:14 AM   #3
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I have a replacement Siemens nema size 1 brand starter for it. I agree with your logic. Our Nuclear world is quite different thought. In Nuke land, is a run to failure component, and we just have to have replacement parts on hand. This is also not needed for safe operation of the reactors, it would be different if it were part of our systems that are needed for safe shutdown.

Until it dies, we still have to perform regular clean/inspect preventative maintenance on them.
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:40 AM   #4
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Default Looks dead to me

If I had to sign off on a PM, it looks dead to me.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:44 AM   #5
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The safest thing to do would be to replace it. You will spend to much time trying to find the cover and that would be your justification. If you are going to spend time looking, put a time limit on it. How much time do you spend looking for a part before your charge out is more then the replacement starter?

Tim.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:40 AM   #6
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That's a definite-purpose contactor and an O/L relay that is sold as a starter. There is no front cover, the poles are kept from coming out the front by the shape of the laminated stack in the back.

This is the most inexpensive starter available and also the least reliable. Even worse than IEC.

Definite purpose contactors are typically used in HVAC equipment but are available for any other type as well.

They will hold up ok if the motor comes up to speed quickly (like a hermetically sealed refrigeration compressor) but if they have to handle locked-rotor current for very long, they will burn up.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micromind View Post
That's a definite-purpose contactor and an O/L relay that is sold as a starter. There is no front cover, the poles are kept from coming out the front by the shape of the laminated stack in the back.

This is the most inexpensive starter available and also the least reliable. Even worse than IEC.

Definite purpose contactors are typically used in HVAC equipment but are available for any other type as well.

They will hold up ok if the motor comes up to speed quickly (like a hermetically sealed refrigeration compressor) but if they have to handle locked-rotor current for very long, they will burn up.
YOU GOT IT MICRO!

This starter is for a HVAC chiller oil pump motor. Motor is just a 3 hp motor. I appreciate your reply.

Also to add, By our letter of the law out here in Nuke land, we cannot replace it until it breaks. Till then we are required to periodically inspect it and keep it clean. Knock on wood, this motor starter has been in service for several years with no issues (knock on wood!).

Edited to emphasize that this starter does not support electrical systems needed to safely shut down our reactors. If it was critical to safe operation of the plant, we would have it on a high frequency preventative maintenance schedule, and would replace parts before they break.
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Last edited by Moonshot180; 02-15-2018 at 12:46 PM. Reason: emphasis on nuclear safety
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Old 02-15-2018, 02:56 PM   #8
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After Siemens bought Furnas, they eventually dumped the entire Definite Purpose line of products, because they were not making money on them. Furnas had already closed the US factories and moved them to Mexico, then Siemens closed the Mexico plants and moved them to India, but even that was too expensive to compete with the crap coming out of China, and Siemens had already suffered through some bad China experiences, so they chose to just dump the entire line. You can occasionally find what's called NOS (New Old Stock) replacement parts on FleaBay or surplus shops, but those parts no longer exist and Siemens doesn't bother with supporting them. They were cheap disposable junk to begin with, never meant to be replaced or repaired.
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:01 PM   #9
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The nuclear way is:

Test/inspect the crap out of it unitl it breaks, then replace it.

I really appreicate the replies and Mr. JRaef i think that is a great history lesson too on this equipment. Thank you sir.
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micromind View Post
That's a definite-purpose contactor and an O/L relay that is sold as a starter. There is no front cover, the poles are kept from coming out the front by the shape of the laminated stack in the back.

This is the most inexpensive starter available and also the least reliable. Even worse than IEC.

Definite purpose contactors are typically used in HVAC equipment but are available for any other type as well.

They will hold up ok if the motor comes up to speed quickly (like a hermetically sealed refrigeration compressor) but if they have to handle locked-rotor current for very long, they will burn up.
This model normally has a front cover/flash shield on them.

They are normally seen laying in the bottom of a control cabinet.

Many guys pull them off so they can manually push in it in to troubleshoot.

[IMG][/IMG]
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Last edited by MechanicalDVR; 02-15-2018 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonshot180 View Post
Also to add, By our letter of the law out here in Nuke land, we cannot replace it until it breaks.
So break it


Last edited by samgregger; 02-15-2018 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:31 PM   #12
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If T1 and T2 had a jumper installed you could take bets on what was going to fail first......might be more entertaining than the average day.
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