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Old 01-27-2007, 06:42 PM   #1
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Default Overdriven staples / insulated staples

Are you required to use insulated staples in your area? I do a tiny bit of work over the line from me in Maryland, so I keep a few boxes of insulated staples around. The inspectors there seem to require them. I've never bothered to follow up to see what "code" they think is requiring them, but I use them in Maryland anyhow. For the rest of my work, I use regular staples. I just don't whack them in like I'm chopping chord wood. That's some people's tendancy. I've had a few helpers once upon a time that I would only allow to use insulated staples. These guys thought that they cable had to be "crimped" by the staple if they were doing it right. I tried and tried to expalin that it's just to hold the cable centered on the stud or joist so that it was out of harm's way for drywall.

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Old 01-27-2007, 06:58 PM   #2
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Marc, where in Maryland? I've never been required to use insulated staples. I do, however, remember a few helpers who could have used them.
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Old 01-27-2007, 07:02 PM   #3
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Marc, where in Maryland? I've never been required to use insulated staples. I do, however, remember a few helpers who could have used them.
Washington County is about all the more I ever get into Maryland (Hagerstown area). I can tell you the story about the 3 hours I spent replacing normal staples with insulted staples about 4 years ago in Thurmont. Oh, wait... I guess I just did.

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Old 01-27-2007, 07:08 PM   #4
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We only allow our older guys to use wire staples the new guys use the strap guns. This way I don't have to worry about it too much. I have been through my share of problems due to the apprentice using the staples.
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Old 01-27-2007, 07:10 PM   #5
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Washington County is about all the more I ever get into Maryland (Hagerstown area). I can tell you the story about the 3 hours I spent replacing normal staples with insulted staples about 4 years ago in Thurmont. Oh, wait... I guess I just did.
OK, I don't get that far west. That must be a local amendment. I'm central MD, with some Eastern shore.
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Old 01-27-2007, 07:19 PM   #6
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OK, I don't get that far west. That must be a local amendment. I'm central MD, with some Eastern shore.
Did one small job on Kent Island a while back, and that's the only time I was ever in your area. I'm not even sure who's license it was done under. The GC "took care of it". They're pretty darned serious down that way about that sort of stuff.
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Old 01-27-2007, 07:36 PM   #7
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I guess I've just driven too many staples to think of them as a problem. I also make sure any new helpers understand how to install them. I know I would be quite irked to have to replace a house full of properly installed staples. I just think it's rediculous. If the electrician installs them too tight, the inspector can just have him re-pull the wires!
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Old 01-27-2007, 07:47 PM   #8
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I would be quite irked to have to replace a house full of properly installed staples.
It irked me at the time too, but it was a bonafide signed change order by the GC at the time, so I didn't mind that much. Nothing like getting paid to correct violations, real or imagined.
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Old 01-27-2007, 08:37 PM   #9
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I'm not required to use insulated staples anywhere, but I've used the plastic variety with the 2 small nails for years, can't remember when I last bought steel staples. And, I stock the types approved for use with round cable and for 2 cables stacked. It's pretty much a keep everything non-metallic thing with me.

I did have an inspector point out to me that the plastic staples were listed and that box of steel staples I had at the time wasn't. Since some steel staples are listed and some aren't this could get to be an issue some places I'm sure.
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Old 01-27-2007, 09:05 PM   #10
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We only allow our older guys to use wire staples the new guys use the strap guns. This way I don't have to worry about it too much. I have been through my share of problems due to the apprentice using the staples.
I guess that's one way to avoid the major hassle of 'training' your guys......

I mean who wants a well trained guy over a dumby-proof solution.
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Old 01-27-2007, 09:23 PM   #11
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I guess that's one way to avoid the major hassle of 'training' your guys......

I mean who wants a well trained guy over a dumby-proof solution.

Gotta love dummy proof solutions sometimes when your a business owner. Alot of times they do things like cause fewer call backs, quicker production, and less time involed getting someone trained. Dosent matter much to the adverage worker though.
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Old 01-27-2007, 10:15 PM   #12
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I did have an inspector point out to me that the plastic staples were listed and that box of steel staples I had at the time wasn't. Since some steel staples are listed and some aren't this could get to be an issue some places I'm sure.
While that might be true, there is no requirement in the code that hardware items such as staples, straps, conduit clips, hangers, bolts, or similar hardware be listed. If a certain staple manufacturer had their product investigated and listed by the UL, good for them. It's just not required, is all. I can see this explanation making certain inspectors pretty cranked up for a little bit, however. (Just like last week, when I pointed out to one that lag bolts are okay for terminating equipment grounding conductors. So far, the code only says that "sheet metal screws" aren't okay. He wasn't very pleased to learn that.)

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Old 01-28-2007, 08:57 PM   #13
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(Just like last week, when I pointed out to one that lag bolts are okay for terminating equipment grounding conductors. So far, the code only says that "sheet metal screws" aren't okay. He wasn't very pleased to learn that.)
So you were using the lag bolt to support the can, then wrapped an EGC under it?

What's wrong with that? We'll do that with disconnects a lot when they're mounted to concrete or block, just loosen the screw a bit wrap the wire around then crank it tight again.

I think inspectors oughta carry 'meggers' to make some of their points, because a lot of them don't have any mechanical inclination.
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Old 01-28-2007, 09:13 PM   #14
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So you were using the lag bolt to support the can, then wrapped an EGC under it?

What's wrong with that? We'll do that with disconnects a lot when they're mounted to concrete or block, just loosen the screw a bit wrap the wire around then crank it tight again.
It probably shouldn't be okay, but so far it is. The code only prohibits that connection if done with sheet metal screws. It makes no mention of drywall screws, lag bolts, railroad spikes, rivets, or any other hardware a person might conjur up.

250.8 Connection of Grounding and Bonding Equipment.
Grounding conductors and bonding jumpers shall be
connected by exothermic welding, listed pressure connectors,
listed clamps, or other listed means. Connection devices
or fittings that depend solely on solder shall not be
used. Sheet metal screws shall not be used to connect
grounding conductors or connection devices to enclosures.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:51 PM   #15
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While that might be true, there is no requirement in the code that hardware items such as staples, straps, conduit clips, hangers, bolts, or similar hardware be listed. If a certain staple manufacturer had their product investigated and listed by the UL, good for them. It's just not required, is all. I can see this explanation making certain inspectors pretty cranked up for a little bit, however. (Just like last week, when I pointed out to one that lag bolts are okay for terminating equipment grounding conductors. So far, the code only says that "sheet metal screws" aren't okay. He wasn't very pleased to learn that.)
During my working career in Chicago (45 years ) I always followed Chicago code that all electrical materials including conduit straps, beam clamps and Caddy clips were listed by an approved testing lab such as U.L. or CSA. I have been retired for 15 years so my daily contact with the code is ended, but I seriously doubt that this has changed.BillW.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:13 PM   #16
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Washington County is about all the more I ever get into Maryland (Hagerstown area). I can tell you the story about the 3 hours I spent replacing normal staples with insulted staples about 4 years ago in Thurmont. Oh, wait... I guess I just did.
yes, Washington Co., thats why i started using the insulated staples also
ive grown fond of those, thats all i buy now. 5 gallons at a time
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:16 PM   #17
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i just noticed this thread is like 2 1/2 years old
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:19 PM   #18
 
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i put new guys through the mill in the beginnning. the only wire they touch for a while is scrap. 'heres a piece of wire and a handful of staples. call me when your done.' 'heres a piece of wire and your strippers. call me when your done.' 'heres a pile of wire clippings and a big handful of wire nuts. call me when your done.' they hate it, but i tell them 'you want to do real work you will excel at this stuff.'
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:24 PM   #19
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I use steel staples, and I personally think it's something every newbie needs to learn to use properly, even if the company they work for uses plastic. There is a certain art to driving staples properly. Yes, I have had helpers who thought as long as the staple does'nt cut the insulation jacket then everything's O.K.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:25 PM   #20
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i just noticed this thread is like 2 1/2 years old
Hah, I wasn't even paying attention!!
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