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Old 07-31-2017, 10:58 PM   #21
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With all due respect I've never put on a suit to take a voltage reading, nor was it required for how many years?

"Napa" 70e?
Aaaaaaand that keeps you from going poof how? Just because it was done that way for years doesn't make it a smart idea. Do you think we should test voltage with the back of our hands?


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Old 08-01-2017, 12:48 AM   #22
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Aaaaaaand that keeps you from going poof how? Just because it was done that way for years doesn't make it a smart idea. Do you think we should test voltage with the back of our hands?


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Being careful when testing was all we had for decades, there was no PPE readily available this was before the advent of Home Depot.

No I have NEVER used the hand or finger test method but I sure have seen guys use both.

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Old 08-01-2017, 12:25 PM   #23
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I have the fluke leads that twist from CAT IV to CAT II, what are the chances or it arcing as I'm checking a fuses and starters. Anyone had an arc flash while checking 480v or 600v?


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Statistically about 4 workers in the US are injured every day by an arc flash, so it's not that uncommon.
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Old 08-01-2017, 12:42 PM   #24
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Statistically about 4 workers in the US are injured every day by an arc flash, so it's not that uncommon.
Thanks for the info, I didn't realize it was that many.
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Old 08-01-2017, 12:59 PM   #25
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If you win the lottery, and the bucket blows (you are there when there is some sort of problem, right ?) .... what kind of protection would you want.
This statement is more important than it seems, especially for us dumb hicks out there in gear with no PPE.

Using an MCC bucket as an example, yes indeed, there is a reason I'm in it while's hot.

If it's a control issue, the risk of an arc flash is extremely low.....the power circuit is not the problem. In this case, PPE is very likely to introduce more hazard that it mitigates.

If the issue is with the power circuit, especially if I think it might be the bus stabs, I won't need any PPE because the MCC will be deenergized before I do anything with it.

This is where common sense, education and experience are more valuable than written regulations.

But I can see where the regulations come from. There are way too many guys out there trying to be heroes and doing stupid things and getting themselves blown up in the process.

Every one of us needs to be able to say 'no' when we feel our personal limits are being compromised, without any form or reproach. Ever.

And yes, I actually have refused to do something that I felt was too hazardous. Not often but it most certainly has happened. My sense of self-preservation will always overrule my sense of pride.

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Old 08-02-2017, 07:21 PM   #26
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This statement is more important than it seems, especially for us dumb hicks out there in gear with no PPE.

Using an MCC bucket as an example, yes indeed, there is a reason I'm in it while's hot.

If it's a control issue, the risk of an arc flash is extremely low.....the power circuit is not the problem. In this case, PPE is very likely to introduce more hazard that it mitigates.

If the issue is with the power circuit, especially if I think it might be the bus stabs, I won't need any PPE because the MCC will be deenergized before I do anything with it.

This is where common sense, education and experience are more valuable than written regulations.

But I can see where the regulations come from. There are way too many guys out there trying to be heroes and doing stupid things and getting themselves blown up in the process.

Every one of us needs to be able to say 'no' when we feel our personal limits are being compromised, without any form or reproach. Ever.

And yes, I actually have refused to do something that I felt was too hazardous. Not often but it most certainly has happened. My sense of self-preservation will always overrule my sense of pride.

Rob.
My 'youtube' arc flash videos weren't directed at you Rob. I've seen your posts, nothing but respect brother

I'm old school too, I've worked live on 600V with no protection at all. But I knew what I was doing, and under which circumstances.

I feel that the OP is somewhat green ... that's why I tried to emphasize the arc fault training.

I still wonder why he has to do what seems to be 'a lot' of testing live. Wherever possible, I always used test equipment to verify circuits dead wherever I could.
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Old 08-02-2017, 07:39 PM   #27
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My 'youtube' arc flash videos weren't directed at you Rob. I've seen your posts, nothing but respect brother

I'm old school too, I've worked live on 600V with no protection at all. But I knew what I was doing, and under which circumstances.

I feel that the OP is somewhat green ... that's why I tried to emphasize the arc fault training.

I still wonder why he has to do what seems to be 'a lot' of testing live. Wherever possible, I always used test equipment to verify circuits dead wherever I could.
No offense taken at all. I simply explained my thoughts in a way most can understand.

You've got a good point and I agree.....if we're going to be working something hot, we'd best know what we're doing. And even then, keep the hot work to an absolute minimum.

Given all the safety stuff I've learned over the years, mostly incident/accident reports and videos, I work a lot less stuff hot than I used to.
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Old 08-02-2017, 08:41 PM   #28
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This statement is more important than it seems, especially for us dumb hicks out there in gear with no PPE.

Using an MCC bucket as an example, yes indeed, there is a reason I'm in it while's hot.

If it's a control issue, the risk of an arc flash is extremely low.....the power circuit is not the problem. In this case, PPE is very likely to introduce more hazard that it mitigates.

If the issue is with the power circuit, especially if I think it might be the bus stabs, I won't need any PPE because the MCC will be deenergized before I do anything with it.

This is where common sense, education and experience are more valuable than written regulations.

But I can see where the regulations come from. There are way too many guys out there trying to be heroes and doing stupid things and getting themselves blown up in the process.

Every one of us needs to be able to say 'no' when we feel our personal limits are being compromised, without any form or reproach. Ever.

And yes, I actually have refused to do something that I felt was too hazardous. Not often but it most certainly has happened. My sense of self-preservation will always overrule my sense of pride.

Rob.
Gotta agree 100%!!

When one company I was working for first started doing Arc Flash studies they bought two full sets of 1 kv rated tools including screwdriers, sockets and wrenches. I asked what are these for? Their "electrical whiz" said it was in case I needed to work on starters live or to "tighten a bus bar on an MCC while it was still eneregized". To the latter statement, I said "I think you've got the wrong guy. I can't get a permit with less than 5 signatures on it for me to change a light bulb. Who will ok a permit for me to become an 800 amp fuse? If I need to tighten a bus bar, I won't need the insulated tools, as the MCC is de-energized, verified and grounded.". He didn't have a reply. Most of the kits have never been used to my knowledge.

The best one I've heard of was a 1kv insulated knife.. When a buddy of mine asked about it, the salesman was trying to justify it's purpose.. He then got shot down in flames on his lack of actual trade knowledge...
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Old 08-03-2017, 07:31 AM   #29
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Every one of us needs to be able to say 'no' when we feel our personal limits are being compromised, without any form or reproach. Ever.
Agreed and I see many that should have tougher limits. I know my limits have expanded as I have gotten older.

Had a job a few weeks back with a switchboard, the customer had the neutrals and grounds in the wrong location for the GFPE to work. He had to drill the neutral bus to accommodate additional lugs. Phase bus was behind the neutral and with no PPE, no insulators between the neutral and phase bus, no drill stops on the drill bit, 480/277, he drilled the bus.

SCARED ME SH*TLESS

I expressed my concerns and I LEFT, only returning after he was complete with the madness.
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