Running initiating and signal circuits in the same conduit? - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum > Electrical Forum > General Electrical Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-05-2017, 08:09 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 117
Rewards Points: 228
Default Running initiating and signal circuits in the same conduit?

I'm in Alberta, Canada, and working with a fresh journeyman who insists he learned in school that for addressable systems, the initiating and signal circuits need to be in separate conduits.

I've wired systems in the same conduit before, and they've all passed inspection. Is there a CEC or fire code rule I'm missing?
quarky2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join Contractor Talk

Join the #1 Electrician Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

ElectricianTalk.com - Are you a Professional Electrical Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for electricians to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your specialty is you'll find that ElectricianTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!

Join ElectricianTalk.com - Click Here JOIN FOR FREE


Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ElectricianTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-05-2017, 11:26 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: BC , Canada
Posts: 389
Rewards Points: 780
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by quarky2001 View Post
I'm in Alberta, Canada, and working with a fresh journeyman who insists he learned in school that for addressable systems, the initiating and signal circuits need to be in separate conduits.

I've wired systems in the same conduit before, and they've all passed inspection. Is there a CEC or fire code rule I'm missing?
It's been a while since I've been involved in FA work..but with all the wiring rated for the same voltage ; and is all for the same FA system ; we've used same conduits for both.
scotch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 04:04 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 220
Rewards Points: 428
Default

several years ago I researched this question and found nothing in NFPA 70 or 72 that required them to be separated .
farmantenna is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-06-2017, 04:41 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sacramento, California
Posts: 13,730
Rewards Points: 25,704
Default

I've never seen an addressable notification circuit. These operate by DC polarity reversal.

So they have no potential to generate cross-talk nor to detect it coming the other way.

Consequently, there is no theoretical reason that they can't share a conduit.
telsa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 08:34 AM   #5
MTW
Senior Member
 
MTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 14,479
Rewards Points: 8,098
Default

It's standard practice to run them in the same raceway here, unless dictated otherwise by manufacturers requirements. So far I have never seen that to be the case.
MTW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 09:42 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
halfamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: the wild west
Posts: 630
Rewards Points: 514
Default

No reason they can't be ran together

Also @telsa Simplex has both addressable strobes and speakers
halfamp is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to halfamp For This Useful Post:
telsa (08-06-2017)
Old 08-06-2017, 09:45 AM   #7
MTW
Senior Member
 
MTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 14,479
Rewards Points: 8,098
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by halfamp View Post
No reason they can't be ran together

Also @telsa Simplex has both addressable strobes and speakers
They do, but everyone hates Simplex. In my area, people avoid it whenever possible.
MTW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 09:50 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
halfamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: the wild west
Posts: 630
Rewards Points: 514
Default

While I'll admit that their service is great in some areas, other areas it is certainly less than perfect. Their product I believe is truly second to none, and just as addressable inputs proved to be the trend of the future, I'm sure other manufacturers will also trend to addressable outputs as they can be much better tailored to local reporting functions (CO alarming, suppression system notification)

I've had more than my share of hair pulled out from dealing with simplex
halfamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 01:43 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Bird dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: South East US
Posts: 4,839
Rewards Points: 1,454
Default

I think it's more practical than a specific requirement. I see no reason unless it is easier to run them together. In large buildings, why should I run my pull station wire through all my horn & strobe boxes.
__________________
Popcorn munching forum observer
"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting." Sun Tzu
Bird dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 04:24 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 117
Rewards Points: 228
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by halfamp View Post
No reason they can't be ran together

Also @telsa Simplex has both addressable strobes and speakers
Thanks all, that's exactly what I thought. I have no idea where this fellow got the idea they had to be separated.

I've actually installed Simplex addressable strobes - they're pretty awesome, and make the VI an absolute breeze! Our engineer was comfortable with the following procedure: disconnect the loops one by one, and ensure that the appropriate devices disappear. Then, just create a ground fault at the first and last strobe in the loop (assuming Class B), and you're good to go!

A tip if anyone sees these though - pictured is the the culprit, for the love of god DON'T snap the strobe into the speaker portion until you've cleared all your troubles. The only way you change the address after you've done this involves 4 flatheads and a lot of luck, or cutting the back open to get at the DIP switches. I learned this the hard way.
Attached Images
 
quarky2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 04:26 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 117
Rewards Points: 228
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by halfamp View Post
While I'll admit that their service is great in some areas, other areas it is certainly less than perfect. Their product I believe is truly second to none, and just as addressable inputs proved to be the trend of the future, I'm sure other manufacturers will also trend to addressable outputs as they can be much better tailored to local reporting functions (CO alarming, suppression system notification)

I've had more than my share of hair pulled out from dealing with simplex
I've had terrible luck with Simplex hardware and their technicians. I'll take Edwards over them any day!
quarky2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PaintTalk.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com