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Old 02-19-2015, 01:17 PM   #1
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Default Self-Test GFCI's

I just got this email from one of our supply houses. They are anticipating the costs to as much as double. We do a lot of new resi stuff....this will surely make an impact on our costs. I guess UL has decided that the general public is too stupid/lazy to push a test button.

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Old 02-19-2015, 01:51 PM   #2
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I completely agree with that move. It is obvious from recent posts here a few electricians almost bought it by not testing them before use. Do you suppose homeowners test also?
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Old 02-19-2015, 01:58 PM   #3
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I have seen the self test AFCI from Eaton and I have had trouble with them. They would only trip on self test. Replaced with a different non test model and all was good. Hope they don't have the same issues with the gfci
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Old 02-19-2015, 02:14 PM   #4
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What happens when the device fails its self test? Does it trip and kill the power to the equipment? Or does it just prevent resetting after a power outage or a manual test?
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Old 02-19-2015, 02:49 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
What happens when the device fails its self test? Does it trip and kill the power to the equipment? Or does it just prevent resetting after a power outage or a manual test?
From what I'm seeing, it will trip and not reset and, have to be swapped out with a new one.
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Old 02-19-2015, 02:57 PM   #6
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From what I'm seeing, it will trip and not reset and, have to be swapped out with a new one.
The one I had issues with would trip -- you reset it and then days later with no one at home the afci would trip. The code stated it tripped on self test. They say if that happens then replace the afci. I had 2 of them do that
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Old 02-19-2015, 02:59 PM   #7
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The one I had issues with would trip -- you reset it and then days later with no one at home the afci would trip. The code stated it tripped on self test. They say if that happens then replace the afci. I had 2 of them do that
Those are the trouble calls that make you want to scream right there. I can only hope that Indiana keeps writing AFCI's out of the Code.
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Old 02-19-2015, 03:51 PM   #8
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To be clear we are talking about GFCIs in this case..

More troubling is the statement about how they (Eaton) are already planning on stopping production of the current GFCI line...

Time to go to the big box stores and stock up on the standard kind before the self-test units take over...

My question is this: Who mandated the change? UL or the NEC Code Nazis?
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Old 02-19-2015, 03:58 PM   #9
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...........My question is this: Who mandated the change? UL or the NEC Code Nazis?

Self-test does not appear in the NEC.
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Old 02-19-2015, 03:59 PM   #10
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Self-test does not appear in the NEC.
Not yet anyways...isn't Eaton on a few of the CMP's?
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Old 02-19-2015, 07:44 PM   #11
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Not yet anyways...isn't Eaton on a few of the CMP's?
No need for that to be in the NEC if it is in the product standard. In fact, in my opinion, things like that don't belong in the NEC, they belong in the product standards.
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Old 02-19-2015, 07:49 PM   #12
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Pass & Seymour says:
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1.) Auto-Monitoring or Self-Test function: This function allows for periodic, automatic testing of the ability of the GFCI to respond to a ground fault. If the Self-Test function detects a problem, the GFCI must deny power or provide visual and/or audible indication.
I would expect that most manufactures will opt for the alarm in place of shutting off the power on a failed self test.

This is a revision UL 943, the product standard that covers GFCIs. From what I have read, the standard will apply to GFCI devices for the US, Canada, and Mexico. NEMA and the CPSC had a hand in the new product standard.

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Old 02-19-2015, 07:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Not yet anyways...isn't Eaton on a few of the CMP's?
Just one......... CMP10, Art. 240.
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Old 02-19-2015, 08:12 PM   #14
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Really? More fricken cost and pieces of junk to deal with? I should have gone HVAC. This crap is rediculous
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Old 02-19-2015, 09:45 PM   #15
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Really? More fricken cost and pieces of junk to deal with? I should have gone HVAC. This crap is rediculous
Totally agree. I'm sick of manufacturer driven product changes. Furthermore, this is just another move in response to lack of personal responsibility.
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Old 02-19-2015, 10:11 PM   #16
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Totally agree. I'm sick of manufacturer driven product changes. Furthermore, this is just another move in response to lack of personal responsibility.
No kidding.

We have a monthly GFCI PM at our facility. There was once that I found a GFCI that would not trip, so I labeled the receptacle "FAILED - DO NOT USE" and made sure it covered all the holes in the recept.

Came back a few hours later to replace the recept, and found someone had plugged something into it. They didn't bother to remove the label, they jammed the plug right through it.
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Old 02-19-2015, 11:03 PM   #17
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Really? More fricken cost and pieces of junk to deal with? I should have gone HVAC. This crap is rediculous
You don't understand. Every morning you get on your knees, close your eyes and express your undying love, gratitude and devotion to the Breaker Gods. Then the nuisance tripping miraculously disappears.
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Old 02-19-2015, 11:07 PM   #18
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So, if I'm understanding this correctly, all GFCI's must be self-testing after the cut off date. I'm guessing economies of scale will bring the price down eventually, but right now a self test GFCI is about $20. I can't see the price being significantly lower than that, and certainly not in the $10-13 range that a regular TR GFCI costs now.
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Old 02-20-2015, 07:30 PM   #19
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I think we should call a self testing GFCI the "Nanny State Outlet" sounds nicer and fewer syllables to say. Gives a nice warm fuzzy feeling to the common receptical drab.

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Old 02-20-2015, 08:05 PM   #20
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It's always something.

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