Should I trust this motor? - Page 2 - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum > Electrical Forum > General Electrical Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-10-2015, 07:46 PM   #21
Member
 
mr.photon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Huntley Il.
Posts: 39
Rewards Points: 78
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NC EET View Post
If it's a critical asset you don't go cheap. I would never put a questionable motor into operation doing something where a failure would either cost money, cause damage, or cost production time.

I don't just see the cost of the motor I see the cost of replacing it with another motor, the cost of the lost production, the cost of damage caused by the failure of the motor, and the cost of replacing other components that possibly would go out due to a domino effect of the above mentioned failure.

I mean, it's whatever you want to do but since I do industrial maintenance wherever critical assets are concerned I spend the money for reliability instead of trying to cut corners.
i see what you are saying. I think ill try it out on the drill press and see how well it works first.
__________________
"Science isn't about why, Its about why not!" -Cave Johnson
mr.photon is offline   Reply With Quote
Join Contractor Talk

Join the #1 Electrician Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

ElectricianTalk.com - Are you a Professional Electrical Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for electricians to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your specialty is you'll find that ElectricianTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!

Join ElectricianTalk.com - Click Here JOIN FOR FREE


Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ElectricianTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-10-2015, 10:54 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Western Kentucky
Posts: 522
Rewards Points: 1,004
Default

That motor shipped to me would only cost $55, considerably cheaper then a name brand by at least 50%.

For me in a home or light use application I may try it, but will always remember back in 1990s when the owner of a company I did R&D for allowed us to prototype new equipment with Dayton because Graingers was just down the road, but he said most emphatically that the final product will not have that name brand on anything he sold.
xpertpc is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to xpertpc For This Useful Post:
mr.photon (02-10-2015)
Old 02-11-2015, 02:56 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
JRaef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SF Bay Area, California
Posts: 5,403
Rewards Points: 686
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.photon View Post
This motor is on sale for about $40, its a 3 phase. It seems to be surplus. Should i be able to trust it? I will be running it off Wye 3ph.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electri...FC-10-2844.axd
Issues:
Brook Crompton, decent brand name in the UK for years, but I had heard they all but went out of business years ago and essentially the name was sold to a motor mfr in India who bought it for the name recognition, so it's not really the same. I'm not saying anything bad about the Indian version, I have no experience with them, just this is not the same B.C. of old, it's in name only. Lot's of old motor lines have gone this way, it's kind of hit or miss now as far as track records for brand names.

Specifically to your motor;
  • Voltage 230/460 AC
  • Amperage 1.36/0.68 Amps
  • Speed 1710 RPM
1710RPM is a low slip speed for a 4 pole motor, that likely means it is low efficiency. Surplus Center is just as their name implies, they buy odd-lot surplus stuff and resell it. Most likely these motors ended up there because someone ordered them not understating the motor efficiency rules in the US now that require higher efficiency motors to be sold ( unless it is a specialty application that falls into some narrow exceptions). This law has technically been in effect since 2007, but what recently changed is that self-reporting of efficiency is no longer allowed as of June of 2014, there are now testing standards added to the Federal law. That has caught a lot of marginal players holding their bag of cheats and deceits, forcing them to scrap their existing stock or sell it off as surplus if they can find a buyer willing to take a chance on being able to move them.

So someone got stuck with these dinosaurs and can't move them, wrote them off and Surplus Center likely bought them for scrap value per lb. They'll sell off as many as they can first for higher amounts, then what they don't sell will get stripped and recycled.

Also, Brook Crompton (and likely the Indian iteration of them), really made IEC motors, not NEMA motors. So this is probably really a 400V 50Hz motor re-labeled as a 460V 60Hz version. There is really nothing technically wrong with that per se, all that means to you is that IEC motor designs don't have a 1.15 Service Factor like we are used to with NEMA designs, or looked at another way they are all 1.0SF. That means no margin for error.

As they say,
"Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances."
__________________
Is it weird how saying sentences backwards creates backwards sentences saying how weird it is?

Last edited by JRaef; 02-11-2015 at 03:01 PM.
JRaef is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JRaef For This Useful Post:
mr.photon (02-11-2015)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-11-2015, 04:46 PM   #24
Member
 
mr.photon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Huntley Il.
Posts: 39
Rewards Points: 78
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRaef View Post
Issues:
Brook Crompton, decent brand name in the UK for years, but I had heard they all but went out of business years ago and essentially the name was sold to a motor mfr in India who bought it for the name recognition, so it's not really the same. I'm not saying anything bad about the Indian version, I have no experience with them, just this is not the same B.C. of old, it's in name only. Lot's of old motor lines have gone this way, it's kind of hit or miss now as far as track records for brand names.

Specifically to your motor;
  • Voltage 230/460 AC
  • Amperage 1.36/0.68 Amps
  • Speed 1710 RPM
1710RPM is a low slip speed for a 4 pole motor, that likely means it is low efficiency. Surplus Center is just as their name implies, they buy odd-lot surplus stuff and resell it. Most likely these motors ended up there because someone ordered them not understating the motor efficiency rules in the US now that require higher efficiency motors to be sold ( unless it is a specialty application that falls into some narrow exceptions). This law has technically been in effect since 2007, but what recently changed is that self-reporting of efficiency is no longer allowed as of June of 2014, there are now testing standards added to the Federal law. That has caught a lot of marginal players holding their bag of cheats and deceits, forcing them to scrap their existing stock or sell it off as surplus if they can find a buyer willing to take a chance on being able to move them.

So someone got stuck with these dinosaurs and can't move them, wrote them off and Surplus Center likely bought them for scrap value per lb. They'll sell off as many as they can first for higher amounts, then what they don't sell will get stripped and recycled.

Also, Brook Crompton (and likely the Indian iteration of them), really made IEC motors, not NEMA motors. So this is probably really a 400V 50Hz motor re-labeled as a 460V 60Hz version. There is really nothing technically wrong with that per se, all that means to you is that IEC motor designs don't have a 1.15 Service Factor like we are used to with NEMA designs, or looked at another way they are all 1.0SF. That means no margin for error.

As they say,
"Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances."
That really makes sense. Thanks.
__________________
"Science isn't about why, Its about why not!" -Cave Johnson
mr.photon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2015, 05:13 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
JRaef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SF Bay Area, California
Posts: 5,403
Rewards Points: 686
Default

Now that I am not on my iPhone I did a bit of snooping about Brook Crompton, looks like I may have been wrong about them selling off to an Indian company. I heard that from one of their distributors, but I see no evidence of it in their company info. Hard to tell for sure though, people can hide details pretty well now.

And that specific motor is shown in a 2011 catalog as being a NEMA design motor with a 1.15SF as well. 2011 is old enough that they still could have recently dumped the product because of the new US changes on efficiency ratings however. In that old catalog the efficiency is stated as only 80%, the standard calls for 85.5% minimum. This motor is no longer in their current catalog.
__________________
Is it weird how saying sentences backwards creates backwards sentences saying how weird it is?
JRaef is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JRaef For This Useful Post:
mr.photon (02-11-2015)
Old 02-11-2015, 05:17 PM   #26
Bababoee
 
captkirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 9,187
Rewards Points: 2,030
Default

I don't know if I would trust it it looks like a liar to me
__________________
Full time Bovine Scatologist.
captkirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
motor, surplus

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trust your gut. 99cents Business, Marketing, and Sales 10 06-24-2014 09:00 AM
Trust your intuition... 99cents Business, Marketing, and Sales 6 07-03-2013 05:43 PM
Do you always trust your instincts? Magnettica General Electrical Discussion 38 07-08-2011 09:29 PM
Never trust a contractor Bob Badger Off Topic (Non Trade) 3 08-10-2010 01:49 PM
losing trust 3phase General Electrical Discussion 14 04-24-2008 08:42 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PaintTalk.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com