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Old 06-14-2018, 10:14 PM   #21
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The oscilloscope is just drawing the two dimensional graph of voltage over time. For normal AC it's sine wave shaped.
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Old 06-14-2018, 10:18 PM   #22
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It's a 2D representation of a mathematical function. As mentioned before.. a graph of a circle. Time and amplitude.

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Old 06-15-2018, 01:24 AM   #23
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the wave of the magnetic field would be three dimensional that"s how efficient transformers work the field expands and collapses but the actual number of electrons per atom in an ac system stays pretty much the same throughout they just shift for a second then go back to their original spot and then the opposite direction. look at how a 3 phase generator to a 3phase motor diagram (old school before vfds) .
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:30 AM   #24
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On a signal analyzer it’s just a dot...so expressing the function as 2D or 3D is somewhat erroneous unless you only consider an oscilloscope-type (XY) display in the time domain.
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Old 06-15-2018, 04:05 PM   #25
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The sine wave you see on paper is a 2D representation of what is happening in a rotating machine, i.e. the generator.

Technically because it has 3 aspects; aplitude, direction and time, it can be thought of as a 3D wave.

I don't know how useful that is or why the question was asked, but there you go.
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Old 06-15-2018, 04:52 PM   #26
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A sine wave is a conceptual vision of a flow of energy, it could be along a wire or as in a radio wave it would emanate from a point source, it would be more apropos to visualize it as, say, wind. stopping and starting in a continuous rhythmic fashion but as wind moves in a direction with energy the energy is not a flow of particles but is more like dominos with only the energy moving not the particles.
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Old 06-15-2018, 05:53 PM   #27
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Strictly speaking, the sine wave is really not a representation of anything; it's a pure abstraction, like all mathematics are. The sine wave was defined in mathematics long before AC power was generated.

Its definition is based on the "unit circle" which is a circle of radius 1. (The units of the radius are not inches, meters, miles, whatever - it's a pure abstraction.) see http://www.purplemath.com/modules/unitcirc.htm

The sine wave is what you get when you map the angle and the sine of the angle in two dimensional cartesian coordinates.

The sine wave turns out to be a perfect mathematical model for the relation of voltage and time with AC voltage produced by rotation, which is the main way we generate AC voltage.

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Old 06-15-2018, 06:13 PM   #28
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A 4Khz signal.

Is it as wide as the conductor it is flowing through?
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:15 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRaef View Post
Technically because it has 3 aspects; aplitude, direction and time, it can be thought of as a 3D wave.

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Cool, now how do I determine the width of that signal? The red line.
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:15 PM   #30
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Quote:
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A 4Khz signal.

Is it as wide as the conductor it is flowing through?
Now you're just fukcing with me.
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:18 PM   #31
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Quote:
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Now you're just fukcing with me.
Oh lord that's funny.....

I am serious though.
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:24 PM   #32
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The curve has no actual width, the lines on the paper (or the pixels on the screen) have width, but the abstraction does not.

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Old 06-15-2018, 06:31 PM   #33
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Even if it's a 120V signal, that signal must spin as it travels down a wire. It can't go in a straight line. A scope must be a cross section, still image of the signal, because it can't show the rotation down the wire?

I suppose it would make sense that the width is actually an electron as stated earlier.
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:35 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmut View Post
Even if it's a 120V signal, that signal must spin as it travels down a wire. It can't go in a straight line. A scope must be a cross section, still image of the signal, because it can't show the rotation down the wire?

I suppose it would make sense that the width is actually an electron as stated earlier.
Back the truck up Loretta.

The sine wave isn't a representation of movement through three dimensional space.
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:41 PM   #35
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Yeah, back to pondering i go...

Yes, like a corkscrew.

Hmm...
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:45 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmut View Post
Even if it's a 120V signal, that signal must spin as it travels down a wire. It can't go in a straight line. A scope must be a cross section, still image of the signal, because it can't show the rotation down the wire?

I suppose it would make sense that the width is actually an electron as stated earlier.
Figure it out for yourself...
https://www.google.com/search?q=size...firefox-b-1-ab
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb
https://www.google.com/search?client....0.QCsFhp3tudY

Have fun.
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Old 06-15-2018, 07:03 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splatz View Post
Back the truck up Loretta.

The sine wave isn't a representation of movement through three dimensional space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmut View Post
Yeah, back to pondering i go...

Yes, like a corkscrew.

Hmm...
You're thinking the sine wave representation of AC voltage is somehow a representation of movement through space - something like this



But that's not what it does; it illustrates voltage over time, the way this grap illustrates price over time

http://journalistsresource.org/wp-co...ov_.jpg?x20117

The image on the oscilloscope is kind of like a periscope view of that curve in real time...
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Old 06-15-2018, 08:58 PM   #38
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A sine wave on a wire is quite different than a propagated wave.

OP asked about sign wave on a wire (I think). An RF propagated wave is completely different.


An RF wave can be circularly polarized, or horizontal/vertically polarized. No such technology exists for a base frequency on a wire (that I am aware of)

60hz AC goes up and down in it's frequency. Period. It can be graphed over time.

Even if we look at the physics before electricity, omega, radians, and degrees all have 'time' when derived.
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Old 06-16-2018, 04:22 PM   #39
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A sign wave is an advertising concept// technique.
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