Is a sign wave 3 dimensional? - Page 2 - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
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 06-14-2018, 11:14 PM #21 Hackenschmidt     Join Date: May 2015 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 9,276 Rewards Points: 1,194 The oscilloscope is just drawing the two dimensional graph of voltage over time. For normal AC it's sine wave shaped. KnightPower likes this. __________________ Whatsoever they HAND findeth to do, do it with thy MIGHT
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 06-14-2018, 11:18 PM #22 Member   Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Western NC Posts: 49 It's a 2D representation of a mathematical function. As mentioned before.. a graph of a circle. Time and amplitude. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk cuba_pete likes this.
 06-15-2018, 02:24 AM #23 Member   Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: spokompton Posts: 76 Rewards Points: 44 the wave of the magnetic field would be three dimensional that"s how efficient transformers work the field expands and collapses but the actual number of electrons per atom in an ac system stays pretty much the same throughout they just shift for a second then go back to their original spot and then the opposite direction. look at how a 3 phase generator to a 3phase motor diagram (old school before vfds) .
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 06-15-2018, 02:30 AM #24 Senior Member     Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,627 Rewards Points: 2,985 On a signal analyzer it’s just a dot...so expressing the function as 2D or 3D is somewhat erroneous unless you only consider an oscilloscope-type (XY) display in the time domain.
 06-15-2018, 05:05 PM #25 Senior Member     Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: SF Bay Area, California Posts: 5,220 Rewards Points: 320 The sine wave you see on paper is a 2D representation of what is happening in a rotating machine, i.e. the generator. Technically because it has 3 aspects; aplitude, direction and time, it can be thought of as a 3D wave. I don't know how useful that is or why the question was asked, but there you go. cuba_pete, Helmut, Bird dog and 1 others like this. __________________ "If you don't know where you're going, then any direction will do." -- Lewis Carroll
 The Following User Says Thank You to JRaef For This Useful Post: Bird dog (06-15-2018)
 06-15-2018, 05:52 PM #26 Junior Member   Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Prescott Arizona Posts: 3 Rewards Points: 6 A sine wave is a conceptual vision of a flow of energy, it could be along a wire or as in a radio wave it would emanate from a point source, it would be more apropos to visualize it as, say, wind. stopping and starting in a continuous rhythmic fashion but as wind moves in a direction with energy the energy is not a flow of particles but is more like dominos with only the energy moving not the particles.
 06-15-2018, 06:53 PM #27 Hackenschmidt     Join Date: May 2015 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 9,276 Rewards Points: 1,194 Strictly speaking, the sine wave is really not a representation of anything; it's a pure abstraction, like all mathematics are. The sine wave was defined in mathematics long before AC power was generated. Its definition is based on the "unit circle" which is a circle of radius 1. (The units of the radius are not inches, meters, miles, whatever - it's a pure abstraction.) see http://www.purplemath.com/modules/unitcirc.htm The sine wave is what you get when you map the angle and the sine of the angle in two dimensional cartesian coordinates. The sine wave turns out to be a perfect mathematical model for the relation of voltage and time with AC voltage produced by rotation, which is the main way we generate AC voltage. __________________ Whatsoever they HAND findeth to do, do it with thy MIGHT Last edited by splatz; 06-15-2018 at 06:55 PM.
 06-15-2018, 07:13 PM #28 German Spy     Join Date: May 2014 Location: THE United States Of America Posts: 3,864 Rewards Points: 4,435 A 4Khz signal. Is it as wide as the conductor it is flowing through? __________________ I see nooothing, I was not here. I did not even get up this morning.
06-15-2018, 07:15 PM   #29
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by JRaef Technically because it has 3 aspects; aplitude, direction and time, it can be thought of as a 3D wave. .
Cool, now how do I determine the width of that signal? The red line.
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06-15-2018, 07:15 PM   #30
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Helmut A 4Khz signal. Is it as wide as the conductor it is flowing through?
Now you're just fukcing with me.
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06-15-2018, 07:18 PM   #31
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by splatz Now you're just fukcing with me.
Oh lord that's funny.....

I am serious though.
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 06-15-2018, 07:24 PM #32 Hackenschmidt     Join Date: May 2015 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 9,276 Rewards Points: 1,194 The curve has no actual width, the lines on the paper (or the pixels on the screen) have width, but the abstraction does not. __________________ Whatsoever they HAND findeth to do, do it with thy MIGHT
 06-15-2018, 07:31 PM #33 German Spy     Join Date: May 2014 Location: THE United States Of America Posts: 3,864 Rewards Points: 4,435 Even if it's a 120V signal, that signal must spin as it travels down a wire. It can't go in a straight line. A scope must be a cross section, still image of the signal, because it can't show the rotation down the wire? I suppose it would make sense that the width is actually an electron as stated earlier. __________________ I see nooothing, I was not here. I did not even get up this morning.
06-15-2018, 07:35 PM   #34
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Helmut Even if it's a 120V signal, that signal must spin as it travels down a wire. It can't go in a straight line. A scope must be a cross section, still image of the signal, because it can't show the rotation down the wire? I suppose it would make sense that the width is actually an electron as stated earlier.
Back the truck up Loretta.

The sine wave isn't a representation of movement through three dimensional space.
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 06-15-2018, 07:41 PM #35 German Spy     Join Date: May 2014 Location: THE United States Of America Posts: 3,864 Rewards Points: 4,435 Yeah, back to pondering i go... Yes, like a corkscrew. Hmm... __________________ I see nooothing, I was not here. I did not even get up this morning. Last edited by Helmut; 06-15-2018 at 07:43 PM.
06-15-2018, 07:45 PM   #36
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Helmut Even if it's a 120V signal, that signal must spin as it travels down a wire. It can't go in a straight line. A scope must be a cross section, still image of the signal, because it can't show the rotation down the wire? I suppose it would make sense that the width is actually an electron as stated earlier.
Figure it out for yourself...
https://www.google.com/search?q=size...firefox-b-1-ab
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb
https://www.google.com/search?client....0.QCsFhp3tudY

Have fun.
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Last edited by Bird dog; 06-15-2018 at 09:43 PM.

06-15-2018, 08:03 PM   #37
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by splatz Back the truck up Loretta. The sine wave isn't a representation of movement through three dimensional space.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Helmut Yeah, back to pondering i go... Yes, like a corkscrew. Hmm...
You're thinking the sine wave representation of AC voltage is somehow a representation of movement through space - something like this

But that's not what it does; it illustrates voltage over time, the way this grap illustrates price over time

http://journalistsresource.org/wp-co...ov_.jpg?x20117

The image on the oscilloscope is kind of like a periscope view of that curve in real time...
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 06-15-2018, 09:58 PM #38 Band Member     Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Eastern Ontario Posts: 6,197 Rewards Points: 1,980 A sine wave on a wire is quite different than a propagated wave. OP asked about sign wave on a wire (I think). An RF propagated wave is completely different. An RF wave can be circularly polarized, or horizontal/vertically polarized. No such technology exists for a base frequency on a wire (that I am aware of) 60hz AC goes up and down in it's frequency. Period. It can be graphed over time. Even if we look at the physics before electricity, omega, radians, and degrees all have 'time' when derived. splatz likes this. __________________ _____________________________________ Your Mother was a hamster, and your father smells of Elderberries. ... Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 06-16-2018, 05:22 PM #39 Senior Member   Join Date: May 2015 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 14,133 Rewards Points: 26,512 A sign wave is an advertising concept// technique.

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