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Old 01-26-2008, 12:49 PM   #1
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Default Some controls wiring help please

Hey guys I normally dont have any trouble with controls wiring but for the life of me I cannot figure this out. Just a mental block I'm sure but anyways.

I've got a new brush motor that is going onto a fertilizer belt. The brush motor is to clean off the belt as the belt rotates it will be rotating in reverse of the belt so what I need is a forward-reversing starter that has hand control as well as auto controls when the belt is running.

I know how to wire the starters as far as the start stop and the hand off auto I've just never done a hand off auto with a forward and reverse apparently. If anyone can give me a little guidance with this it would be greaty appreciated.

I think that I need to put another contact block on the back of my HOA switch correct? That way the reverse and the forward are on seperate terminals of the HOA?
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Old 01-26-2008, 12:57 PM   #2
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What would that accomplish?

All you need is a 2 position switch (single pole double throw or a switch with a n/o and n/c contact on it.

Run the "hand" control power through this so you will choose f or r when you hand control/
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Old 01-26-2008, 01:36 PM   #3
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I'll need a bit more info here, this could get tricky.

From what I can gather, there's a hand-off-auto switch that controls a motor that needs to run forward sometimes, and reverse sometimes.

In the auto position, I assume the brush motor starts when the conveyer starts. In this position does the brush motor always run the same direction?

In the hand position, are there start-stop buttons? What about direction here?

If you could explain how the process works in more detail, several of us around here could help alot.
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Old 01-26-2008, 02:34 PM   #4
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Different ways to do this:

Use the "hand" position of the H-O-A to feed power to the forward/reverse/stop PB station, (located wherever - maybe on the door of the starter, maybe near the brush motor) and the "automatic" position of the switch would let whatever control devices you have run the motor.

Or you could use a PLC; wire the H-O-A, aux. contacts, control devices and the control station to PLC inputs, the forward and reverse coils to PLC outputs, write a few lines of logic, and there you go.

How about installing a VFD on the brush motor controlled by some sort of conductivity probe that speeds the brush motor up as the sh*t gets deeper?

JK. As micromind said, with more info I'm sure someone will be able to offer an appropriate solution to your problem. Always remember, with controls there are many different ways to skin a cat. Use the one that makes the most sense to you.

I wasn't entirely kidding about the VFD. Depending on the application, (especially a retrofit) a VFD can be a cost effective method of reversing a motor, even if you don't need to control the speed. A decent 5 HP VFD is less than a thousand bucks compared to a MCC bucket, which is usually twice that.
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Old 01-26-2008, 10:07 PM   #5
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You can use one HOA Hand running all the time in your desired direction. Wiring directly to coil. In the auto position you can install 2 seperate pushbuttons FWD/REV use contact interlocking. Or just a 2 position selector switch getting fed from the auto position of the selector switch.

However I agree with Mountain use a VFD You will eliminate 1 contactor( stil need contactor to break load side of vfd) , just reverse it from the plc toggle the reverse bit or foward bit from the plc only need one switch. And one swich for Hand. PLC can give the drive enable when conv. starts in auto.

Last edited by 5volts; 01-26-2008 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 01-26-2008, 10:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p_logix View Post
You can use one HOA Hand running all the time in your desired direction. Wiring directly to coil. In the auto position you can install 2 seperate pushbuttons FWD/REV use contact interlocking. Or just a 2 position selector switch getting fed from the auto position of the selector switch.

However I agree with Mountain use a VFD You will eliminate 1 contactor( stil need contactor to break load side of vfd) , just reverse it from the plc toggle the reverse bit or foward bit from the plc only need one switch. And one swich for Hand. PLC can give the drive enable when conv. starts in auto.
I suppose when dowmace comes back he can clarify. I read his needs as needing a forward and reverse only in hand mode. In auto it would only run one direction. Could be wrong though.

I think you guys are putting too much work into this thing though. If I am correct with what I believe is needed, there is no need for a VFD and there is no indication of a plc being used at all.

I am putting less than $100 into this thing (above the basic controls) while you guys are working at $500+ depending on what you are doing.

and why do you need a contactor to break the load side of the VFD?

and how are you going to use a VFD to reverse the motor if this is a single phase motor? dowmace has not said if this is 3 phase or single phase.

In other words, not enough info given to truly design anything.
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Old 01-26-2008, 10:46 PM   #7
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what about a drum switch if it is a single phase motor.just quick thought.

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Old 01-27-2008, 12:45 AM   #8
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Thanks for all the help guys I figured it out this afternoon. I'll scan a diagram of what I engineered in the very near future just don't have a scanner available at this late time. Thanks for all the help guys!!!
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Old 01-27-2008, 03:55 AM   #9
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Why use a contactor load side of VFD?
The contactor would be a safety contactor to go on the load side of the drive. They are controlled and monitored by a safety relay or safety PLC. The drives we use can handle this without a problem. I dont like to use a contactor in front of the drive. The reason is when an operator hits an estop for whatever reason, the drive stays powered up and networks don't fault. Anyways I don't want to beat this into the ground And i am glad to hear DOWMACE got his problem solved. Love to see the drawing

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Old 01-27-2008, 09:49 AM   #10
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ah, you can use the e-stop to stop the VFD in several different ways.

yes, dowmace, be sure to post up the work. Looking forward to seeing it.
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