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Old 11-09-2016, 02:52 PM   #1
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Hello guys. I was wondering, if I bond the grounding and grounded conductors in the Meter pan (running a grounding electrode to the grounding rod, all within the meter pan, creating a grounding conductor within the meter pan--4th conductor), would the first disconnect become a sub-panel (eliminating the tie bar and isolating the neutral)? I have an outside meter, to an outside disconnect, to an inside distribution panel with a breaker disconnect.
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Old 11-09-2016, 03:02 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by 1Blu3bird View Post
Hello guys. I was wondering, if I bond the grounding and grounded conductors in the Meter pan (running a grounding electrode to the grounding rod, all within the meter pan, creating a grounding conductor within the meter pan--4th conductor), would the first disconnect become a sub-panel (eliminating the tie bar and isolating the neutral)? I have an outside meter, to an outside disconnect, to an inside distribution panel with a breaker disconnect.
Outside disco would be service disconnect, inside panel would be sub. You can bond in the disco or up to the weather head and still run three wire to the disco.

Last edited by backstay; 11-09-2016 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 11-09-2016, 03:05 PM   #3
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Theoretically , if i tie all the legs of a perfectly balanced 3 ph X-former together, it should simply tick along fine , but i would'nt want to be the dude to close the switch BlueBird....

What you are referring to is an MBJ (Main bonding jumper) , with regards to the GEC's (grounding electrode conductors) juxtaposed to it's placement w/in any given system.

This can, should the right entities choose to opine here, a grand debate , especially if those up on earthing systems chime in


~CS~
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Old 11-09-2016, 04:01 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by 1Blu3bird View Post
Hello guys. I was wondering, if I bond the grounding and grounded conductors in the Meter pan (running a grounding electrode to the grounding rod, all within the meter pan, creating a grounding conductor within the meter pan--4th conductor), would the first disconnect become a sub-panel (eliminating the tie bar and isolating the neutral)? I have an outside meter, to an outside disconnect, to an inside distribution panel with a breaker disconnect.
OK, here we go:

1. Many people will not be familiar with this config since many POCOs will not allow a "foriegn" bonding jumper or GEC in their meter pan.
2. Why is there a grounding conductor (separate from the neutral) in the meter pan in the first place? There is usually no place to mount it.
3. Is the outside disconnect a fused disconnect? If not, then the "main disconnect" will be the main breaker in the inside panel.
4. If the outside disconnect it fused it will be the service disconnect and the ground neutral bond can be made there or close upstream of it in the meter pane. You must bond in one of those two places and run an EGC to the inside panel. In all configurations except the "if not" situation from 3 you may not bond EGC to neutral in the inside panel.
5. Just to make life interesting, if there is no metallic connection between meter pan and outside fused disconnect you can run three or four wires and if four you can bond EGC to neutral in both places. If the connection is metallic you need to choose one location or the other and all feeders downstream of the bond need to be four wire and isolated on the downstream end.

(AFAIK)
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Old 11-09-2016, 07:57 PM   #5
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I think everyone missed that is a basic meter socket, not a meter-main. By code you can connect your grounding electrode conductor in the meter. We typically use a milbank u7040 socket which does have a location for the GEC if you wanted to land it there. You would still run 3 wire (2 ungrounded and 1 grounded) to your service disconnecting means. Your service disconnecting means would still have a main bonding jumper installed. As stated though many utility companies will not allow you to install your GEC in the meter can.
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Old 11-09-2016, 08:57 PM   #6
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do you have MEC? they dont allow ground in the meter.
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Old 11-10-2016, 01:24 AM   #7
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OK, here we go:


5. Just to make life interesting, if there is no metallic connection between meter pan and outside fused disconnect you can run three or four wires and if four you can bond EGC to neutral in both places. If the connection is metallic you need to choose one location or the other and all feeders downstream of the bond need to be four wire and isolated on the downstream end.

(AFAIK)

BOLD If you do this and size the EGC less than the neutral, with high unbalance current it is possible to have high levels of neutral current on the EGC (Parallel path)

UNDERLINED This set up is doe all the time on commercial services and there are as expected (by me at least) circulating ground currents.
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Old 11-11-2016, 07:44 PM   #8
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Thanks for all the answers; now I understand much better. I am licensed in both Louisiana and Colorado; and some jurisdictions (inspector) in each of the two state requires/allow something different. The many answers you guys have given allows me to grasp the electrical theory and justification behind a why and/or why not. Thanks again.
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