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Old 01-16-2015, 11:36 AM   #21
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My question is is there a specific training about switchgear out there?
I used to develop custom training programs for companies for their specific equipment on its safety, operation, and maintenance. I hung up my training shoes a few years ago but know all the players in that specific industry well.

AVO as mentioned is good, Shermco also offers some excellent courses like this.
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Old 01-16-2015, 01:34 PM   #22
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And a direct violation of OSHA

1910.334 (b)(2) "Reclosing circuits after protective device operation." After a circuit is deenergized by a circuit protective device, the circuit protective device, the circuit may not be manually reenergized until it has been determined that the equipment and circuit can be safely energized. The repetitive manual reclosing of circuit breakers or reenergizing circuits through replaced fuses is prohibited.

Note: When it can be determined from the design of the circuit and the overcurrent devices involved that the automatic operation of a device was caused by an overload rather than a fault condition, no examination of the circuit or connected equipment is needed before the circuit is reenergized.
That's good to know.
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Old 01-17-2015, 09:23 PM   #23
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Yes there is, it's called "becoming a licensed electrician" available in all states through a process of apprenticeship and extensive experience working with a qualified Journeyman electrician.

Seriously, walking in and re-closing a tripped main breaker is not a special skill, and in fact is really dangerous and exhibits poor judgement on the part of your technician. Breakers never trip without reason. When the MAIN breaker in a large piece of switchgear trips (I know it is large, because you said it has a crank handle), there was/is some kind of very serious situation somewhere down stream, and the main breaker breaker tripped as a latch ditch effort to prevent it from becoming a fire. Re-closing it without finding the cause is not the first course of action, that is just inviting more trouble, SERIOUS trouble.

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Disagree, it doesnt necessarily mean there is a "very serious situation" down stream. GFI protected mains trip all the time, bypassing the panel main and the smaller circuit overcurrent protection device all the time. Usually it means there is a problem with a neutral somewhere. I've seen a nicked neutral in a 3/4 LB feeding five LEDs trip a 1200 amp main.
Of course, he shouldnt just rethrow the main, but a qualified electrician should know how to bring a building back up safely.
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Old 01-17-2015, 09:44 PM   #24
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Disagree, it doesnt necessarily mean there is a "very serious situation" down stream. GFI protected mains trip all the time, bypassing the panel main and the smaller circuit overcurrent protection device all the time. Usually it means there is a problem with a neutral somewhere. I've seen a nicked neutral in a 3/4 LB feeding five LEDs trip a 1200 amp main.
Of course, he shouldnt just rethrow the main, but a qualified electrician should know how to bring a building back up safely.
While a situation as described above can and maybe has tripped a GFCI main or two somewhere along the way, you still have to investigate the problem and find out why the main tripped.

We don't know if its the nicked neutral screwing with the GFI protection or if its a phase to phase fault in the main breaker that's going to obliterate the switchgear and everything around it....including the electrician.....when its closed back into that fault.

YES.....Any qualified electrician should know how to bring a system back online safely and part of that is knowing how to determine what took the system down in the first place.
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Old 01-18-2015, 12:19 AM   #25
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If a phase to phase short caused the main to trip, the panel and/or specific circuit breaker would have tripped first. A neutral fault is the only think that I'm aware of that will cause the problem to bypass those and force the GFI to trip, under normal installation, ie standard commercial/industrial applications. There is an easy way to test and find the problem if every thing otherwise checks out that involves using the time delay settings on the main. I wont post that on an open forum, I dont want some know it all apprentice to start messing with main breaker settings, but if anyone is interested, PM me.
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Old 01-18-2015, 11:10 AM   #26
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If a phase to phase short caused the main to trip, the panel and/or specific circuit breaker would have tripped first. A neutral fault is the only think that I'm aware of that will cause the problem to bypass those and force the GFI to trip, under normal installation, ie standard commercial/industrial applications. There is an easy way to test and find the problem if every thing otherwise checks out that involves using the time delay settings on the main. I wont post that on an open forum, I dont want some know it all apprentice to start messing with main breaker settings, but if anyone is interested, PM me.
If a proper breaker/fuse coordination study was done and the settings were properly checked and maintained...But who knows if someone has messed around with the settings or if they were properly set-up in the beginning..

I've had discussions with building owners that were electrical engineers that assumed "the factory" changed the settings when they shipped it for them.. I asked "Are you sure since they are all at the minimum setting?" as I was troubleshooting a nuisance trip of a main breaker one morning...
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Old 01-18-2015, 11:23 AM   #27
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I've had discussions with building owners that were electrical engineers that assumed "the factory" changed the settings when they shipped it for them.. I asked "Are you sure since they are all at the minimum setting?" as I was troubleshooting a nuisance trip of a main breaker one morning...
It amazes me how many engineers believe this, or tell the customer that is not in their scope, or it is up to the EC to make those determinations.
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Old 01-18-2015, 01:20 PM   #28
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It amazes me how many engineers believe this, or tell the customer that is not in their scope, or it is up to the EC to make those determinations.
Or list the coordination study as a cost savings measure...
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Old 02-02-2015, 07:59 PM   #29
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Yes, there is electrical training for switchgear out there called.
AVO www.avotraining.com located in Tx.
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Old 02-02-2015, 10:02 PM   #30
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but the boss didn't explain why we have to turned back on.
When or if it is turned on again,
should the call of an experienced electrician only,
NOT some upstairs fool !
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Old 02-03-2015, 09:29 PM   #31
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If a proper breaker/fuse coordination study was done and the settings were properly checked and maintained...But who knows if someone has messed around with the settings or if they were properly set-up in the beginning..

I've had discussions with building owners that were electrical engineers that assumed "the factory" changed the settings when they shipped it for them.. I asked "Are you sure since they are all at the minimum setting?" as I was troubleshooting a nuisance trip of a main breaker one morning...
Co-ordination studies are something a LOT of people seem to not know about or just ignore. We see it all the time just like you said, they assume that's how it came from the factory so that's how it must be....meanwhile there's a 200A rating plug or In is set down to 200A, but since they have an 400A frame they can't understand why a 400A breaker wont hold when there's only 250A of load

There are systems though where the only level of ground fault protection is at the main breaker and a downstream ground fault trips the main. Going to a trouble call for a main breaker tripped on ground fault and finding a ground fault in outdoor lighting circuit is common, it almost makes me smile . Last one I was recently at was a courthouse, outdoor pot light took the whole place down, back up generator did not start.
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