Union vs. non union - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum > Electrical Forum > General Electrical Discussion


Like Tree88Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-08-2017, 06:45 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: San Diego
Posts: 20
Rewards Points: 24
Default Union vs. non union

Hey idk if this is the right place for this post but here it is anyways. I've been working for my current boss for about a year (non union) and worked for a commercial company (non union) for a year before that. I applied with the union a year ago Ibew local 569 and took written test and oral interview, have not heard back from them. Last week however I got talking to a union guy randomly and said he could help me with the process of re applying and getting in. My problem is that I help my current boss run his company but he's been stingy on giving me a raise and idk how solid is work outlook is, also for whatever reason he's lagging on getting me on payroll and been paying me cash . Really like the guy but his head seems to be else where even tho he's always got plans of growing the company. My goal is to get the best training all around electrical training I can and start my own company one day (would like to learn both aspects of inside wireman and datacom). So my questions is I guess what are the pros and cons of the union and if there are other avenues I can take to get a solid training in the field so I can journey out and really know my stuff.
Simber650 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join Contractor Talk

Join the #1 Electrician Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

ElectricianTalk.com - Are you a Professional Electrical Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for electricians to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your specialty is you'll find that ElectricianTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!

Join ElectricianTalk.com - Click Here JOIN FOR FREE


Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ElectricianTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-08-2017, 06:55 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
HackWork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: -
Posts: 32,871
Rewards Points: 885
Default

If you can get into an IBEW local that has work, do it.

There is really no downside. You get an excellent apprenticeship for free and a big paycheck with it, along with benefits, pension, annuity, etc.

If you find that you don't like the union afterwards, you can worry about it then.

Don't give your current boss a second thought. Give him notice once you find out that you got into the local, you will usually know a couple months ahead.

ETA: The journeyman rate in IBEW local 569 is $43.25/hr. First year apprentices usually start at 40% of that and go up 10% every year for the 5 years of apprenticeship. That's over $17 your first year and almost $22 your second. By the time you top out the journeyman rate will probably be close to $50/hr.
__________________
I'm trying to think, but nothing happens.

Last edited by HackWork; 09-08-2017 at 06:58 PM.
HackWork is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2017, 07:10 PM   #3
Retired Account
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: the Green Mountain state
Posts: 39,722
Rewards Points: 14,650
Default

If you like being told what you'd like to hear, the IBEW is the way to go

good luck

~CS~
carryyourbooks likes this.
chicken steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-08-2017, 07:11 PM   #4
Can't sign em..forget em
 
lighterup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,361
Rewards Points: 10,046
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicken steve View Post
If you like being told what you'd like to hear, the IBEW is the way to go

good luck

~CS~
see no evil , hear no evil , speak no evil
lighterup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2017, 07:14 PM   #5
Retired Account
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: the Green Mountain state
Posts: 39,722
Rewards Points: 14,650
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lighterup View Post
see no evil , hear no evil , speak no evil
do no evil......~CS~
chicken steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2017, 07:25 PM   #6
Can't sign em..forget em
 
lighterup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,361
Rewards Points: 10,046
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicken steve View Post
do no evil......~CS~
Covers mouth ..it's "speak"

Semantics..the jist of it is , don't get
overly involved in union life and you'll last
a hundred years there.
lighterup is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to lighterup For This Useful Post:
MechanicalDVR (09-08-2017)
Old 09-08-2017, 07:31 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 12,167
Rewards Points: 14,714
Default

Union is the place to get your training if you can get in. Your current boss is not your problem.

Take some business courses if you can squeeze out the time.
MechanicalDVR likes this.
__________________
Three vastly different enemies, but enemies who shared one common trait. ALL of them stifle free speech. All of them bully, degrade and terrorize those who hold opposing views and who peacefully express them. All of them are intolerant and demand “loyalty” to the leader. Michael Sand
hardworkingstiff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2017, 07:42 PM   #8
Old Grumpy Bastard
 
MechanicalDVR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Old Dominion"
Posts: 59,179
Rewards Points: 760
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicken steve View Post
If you like being told what you'd like to hear, the IBEW is the way to go

good luck

~CS~
What's the matter Steve could never get in?
__________________
I'm as Christian as possible in the times we live in.

Always just a stallion in a china shop
MechanicalDVR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2017, 07:48 PM   #9
Old Grumpy Bastard
 
MechanicalDVR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Old Dominion"
Posts: 59,179
Rewards Points: 760
Default

@Simber650 do what ever you can to get in the Union.

It will be the best training you can get and well worth your time and effort.

Use the search feature here and look through some of the other Union-non union threads.
bill39 and HackWork like this.
__________________
I'm as Christian as possible in the times we live in.

Always just a stallion in a china shop
MechanicalDVR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2017, 08:18 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
al_smelter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The very tip of Lake Michigan
Posts: 434
Rewards Points: 526
Default

I've never been sorry for going the union route, even when work did dry up from time to time. Though I am now on the company side of the bargaining table, I have the union to thank for educating me, putting a roof over my head, food on the table, and the the confidence to mold myself into what I have ultimately become. I'm proud of my career.

Unless you have married the boss's daughter, you owe him nothing but a fair day's work, and he owes you nothing but a fair wage for that work. He is already doing you a disservice by paying in cash, and that alone would throw up a red flag for me. You are but a gofer for him.

Ask yourself this: Could I actually see myself retiring from this job? If your answer is 'no', move on if you get the opportunity.
al_smelter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2017, 08:31 PM   #11
Old Grumpy Bastard
 
MechanicalDVR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Old Dominion"
Posts: 59,179
Rewards Points: 760
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by al_smelter View Post
I've never been sorry for going the union route, even when work did dry up from time to time. Though I am now on the company side of the bargaining table, I have the union to thank for educating me, putting a roof over my head, food on the table, and the the confidence to mold myself into what I have ultimately become. I'm proud of my career.

Unless you have married the boss's daughter, you owe him nothing but a fair day's work, and he owes you nothing but a fair wage for that work. He is already doing you a disservice by paying in cash, and that alone would throw up a red flag for me. You are but a gofer for him.

Ask yourself this: Could I actually see myself retiring from this job? If your answer is 'no', move on if you get the opportunity.
Well said brother!

If he married the boss's daughter he may just be the one owed...
__________________
I'm as Christian as possible in the times we live in.

Always just a stallion in a china shop
MechanicalDVR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2017, 07:10 AM   #12
:-)
 
daveEM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Alberta
Posts: 3,670
Rewards Points: 2,382
Default

Pension is nice when you are older.
__________________
<<
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I like perfect.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
daveEM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to daveEM For This Useful Post:
Southeast Power (09-09-2017)
Old 09-09-2017, 07:18 AM   #13
86 45 20
 
Southeast Power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 17,667
Rewards Points: 8,006
Default

If he is paying you in cash, you really don't have a job and, guess what, you are not really helping him run his business.
You might have a couple of "cash" guys working under you but, wanna bet it would take him about 12-24 hours to replace you.
You are wasting your time there and the way he is paying you is both criminal and opening you up to a very serious tax problem.
You are in a bad situation there.
Union or not, you need to get away from him.
Southeast Power is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Southeast Power For This Useful Post:
Leyden (09-10-2017), MechanicalDVR (09-09-2017)
Old 09-09-2017, 07:36 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
HackWork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: -
Posts: 32,871
Rewards Points: 885
Default

Wait, it's bad to pay employees in cash???


Damnit, I just can't catch a break...
brian john, dronai and Leyden like this.
__________________
I'm trying to think, but nothing happens.
HackWork is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2017, 07:58 AM   #15
Hackenschmidt
 
splatz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,208
Rewards Points: 3,808
Default

@Simber650 , I give this advice a lot when these threads come up, and I know it doesn't get taken very often, but I keep doing it just the same, because in the unlikely event someone takes it, it could be some of the best advice you ever get.

Sit down with an accountant - a CPA, not someone that just does tax returns like H&R Block - sit down and ask them about your current situation, and ask them about what you'd need to make non-union to really compare to a union job.

Hopefully you can find a CPA that does the taxes for some people in the union, but bring the info on the journeyman wages and benefits at the local you're dealing with.

When you look at what you really need to be getting from a non-union shop to match what you can make in the union, then you can make an informed decision. Until then, you're really just flying blind. Most people figure this out a LOT later in life than they'd like and there's not a thing you can do to get back that time.

He'll also explain to you what a **** show your current situation is, tax wise, benefit wise, probably insurance wise, etc.

Also consider that you're not getting credit for your time towards your apprenticeship, so you're just stalled, not making progress to bigger money. You can bet your current employer knows that this is an excellent way to avoid ever paying you any more than he pays you now.

So yeah put down the xbox or whatever you do on the weekend, find an accountant that's a CPA, expect to pay him for his time, and expect him to charge a lot more than you make. If you know someone in the union, ask if he has a CPA that does his taxes. It's their off season, it shouldn't be that hard to find someone.

Ask the CPA to explain the value of the union wage and benefit package and what it will mean to you now, in five years, and in thirty years.
__________________
Everything Should Be Made as Simple as Possible, But Not Simpler
splatz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2017, 08:01 AM   #16
Small Potatoes
 
flyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: North East USA Treasure Coast Florida
Posts: 4,929
Rewards Points: 3,590
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HackWork View Post
Wait, it's bad to pay employees in cash???


Damnit, I just can't catch a break...
Yes it is...you criminal. You could find yourself in a place filled with people who have felonies and smell like cigarettes.
MechanicalDVR likes this.
flyboy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2017, 08:03 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
HackWork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: -
Posts: 32,871
Rewards Points: 885
Default

Why does he need to pay a CPA for this splatz? It's basic math.

And that CPA will most likely know much less about the union and how it works than the hundreds of years of union experience the people on this forum can offer.
__________________
I'm trying to think, but nothing happens.
HackWork is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2017, 08:05 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
HackWork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: -
Posts: 32,871
Rewards Points: 885
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy View Post
Yes it is...you criminal. You could find yourself in a place filled with people who have felonies and smell like cigarettes.
I would NEVER pay someone in cash. I payroll all employees and pay WC and unemployment. Unfortunately I lost all the records along with all my firearms in a boating accident 30 miles offshore
dronai, RePhase277 and Leyden like this.
__________________
I'm trying to think, but nothing happens.
HackWork is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2017, 08:18 AM   #19
Hackenschmidt
 
splatz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,208
Rewards Points: 3,808
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HackWork View Post
Why does he need to pay a CPA for this splatz? It's basic math.

And that CPA will most likely know much less about the union and how it works than the hundreds of years of union experience the people on this forum can offer.
You can learn more in an hour with a CPA than you're likely to get in ten pages of forum posts. You'll see some saying go union some saying F the union here, some saying a good non-union shop can match the union.

People are giving him good answers but they are not showing their work. It will be more of an eye opener if he sees this mapped out in detail in actual dollar amounts. Knowledge is power that's why it's worth money.

How much will he see in his check, how much in five years if he's a journeyman, how much he might see in 10 years if he's a foreman. What does he need to see in a 401k contribution to match the union retirement / pension contributions. What kind of health care plan he'll need to see from a non-union shop to match the union benefit, or what he'll have to pay out of pocket to make up the difference between a less comprehensive health care plan. The difference it will make taking health care out of your check. The difference it will make when your wife has a baby. Who the hell is this ****ing FICA. What happens if you get hurt and your employer has no workman's comp. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Seeing the details would make the difference between blowing it off and getting their attention for a lot of people. You have to show people to convince them, you can't expect them to take too much on blind faith.
__________________
Everything Should Be Made as Simple as Possible, But Not Simpler
splatz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2017, 09:23 AM   #20
Retired Account
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: the Green Mountain state
Posts: 39,722
Rewards Points: 14,650
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MechanicalDVR View Post
What's the matter Steve could never get in?
They offered, i turned then down

~CS~
Leyden likes this.
chicken steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Big mouth in the union? NoSparkSparky Union Topics 33 05-22-2016 10:18 AM
How easy is it to go back working non Union Heavyduty5 Union Topics 17 03-06-2016 09:02 PM
To join the union or not HAL9000 Union Topics 46 03-02-2016 06:28 PM
Should I go union Ninjanick Union Topics 37 02-27-2016 11:51 AM
Union vs non Union mstrlucky74 General Electrical Discussion 9 01-12-2016 01:44 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PaintTalk.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com