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Old 02-16-2015, 10:14 AM   #1
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Default Whole house surge suppression

Will be doing a panel swap and the customer wants whole house surge suppression. Any recommendations? I see Square Diddley makes one. How do you hook them up?

Probably a gimmick but the customer gets what he wants, right ?
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Old 02-16-2015, 10:20 AM   #2
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I like the Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA.

Install is simple, 3 leads, Neutral and 2 hots connected to a dedicated 50-amp beaker. Installs directly on the main panel through a 1/2" KO.

The only think I don't like about them is a version of them are re-branded as Mike Holmes units. Same unit, but a picture of a MH on the box. They sell at HD.

http://www.cutler-hammer.ca/ecm/grou.../br37a02pk.pdf

It's a good up-sell. My heatpump contractor recommended one to me (I already have one). They quoted $360 installed. I suspect it's a cheaper $80 one on a 15-amp breaker ($15) and 15 minutes work.

Last edited by RFguy; 02-16-2015 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 02-16-2015, 10:28 AM   #3
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I like the Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA.

Install is simple, 3 leads, Neutral and 2 hots connected to a dedicated 50-amp beaker. Installs directly on the main panel through a 1/2" KO.

The only think I don't like about them is a version of them are re-branded as Mike Holmes units. Same unit, but a picture of a MH on the box. They sell at HD.

http://www.cutler-hammer.ca/ecm/grou.../br37a02pk.pdf
Thanks. Looks quick and easy. Mike Holmes. Ugh.
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Old 02-16-2015, 10:29 AM   #4
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Will be doing a panel swap and the customer wants whole house surge suppression. Any recommendations? I see Square Diddley makes one. How do you hook them up?

Probably a gimmick but the customer gets what he wants, right ?
i sell square d surgebreakers at the main and individual UPS's at PC and entertainment centers.

Surgebreaker just plugs on two spaces and has an LED indicator and customers like that the warranty will pay the deductible.
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Old 02-16-2015, 10:35 AM   #5
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Mike Holmes. Ugh.
Here's a signed copy you can print out and hand out.

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/publ...r00414002e.pdf
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Old 02-16-2015, 10:36 AM   #6
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Here's a signed copy you can print out and hand out.

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/publ...r00414002e.pdf
Gee thanks. I'll get right on that
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Old 02-16-2015, 12:53 PM   #7
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I like the Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA. Install is simple, 3 leads, Neutral and 2 hots connected to a dedicated 50-amp beaker.
Unless the panel is recessed in a wall with finished drywall or, worse yet, wainscoting. Then it sucks to install.
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Old 02-16-2015, 01:22 PM   #8
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No gimmick, these units will work to suppress line transients. Of course if the transient exceeds the maximum surge current there could be damage to household electronics.

I would recommend at least a 75kA rating or better on these devices.
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Old 02-16-2015, 01:30 PM   #9
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I like the style that just goes into the panel and takes up two breaker spaces for any time its a recessed panel with a finished wall. Snap it on to the busbars.....tie in the neutral......put the cover back on.....collect the $$$$ and sleep well at night.
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Old 02-16-2015, 01:46 PM   #10
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We use a lot of transtector products.http://www.smithspower.com/brands/tr...rge-protection
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Old 02-16-2015, 02:12 PM   #11
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Gee thanks. I'll get right on that
Do Canadians not like mike Holm's? I would think you guys would like him since he preaches doing things right and having the right people do it.
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Old 02-16-2015, 03:29 PM   #12
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> Square Diddley makes one.

Everybody does. Just like for you, surge-units are good money for the systems makers.

> How do you hook them up?

IMHO, the "best" type installs just like a dryer breaker, except no wire leaves the breaker box. Put it near the main breaker so surges pass it before going to the load breakers. Disadvantage: when you buy the breaker panel you have to plan for two extra poles. (Which really means 4 to 8 extra poles, which is probably a good thing; but is cost and space.) The issue with these is that, like breakers, you MUST get the same-brand (or compatible) as the breaker panel. (A Square-D can not be hammered into a GE box, and surgery is not approved.)

Another type sits outside the box and wires go to a breaker. Is common, popular, and works. However remember that surges are not 60-cycle stuff. A nearby lightning strike can rise VERY fast. The foot or so of extra wire means the first part-microsecond of surge doesn't hit the suppressor until it has already hit the load breakers. IMHO this is slightly less protection. Also in my experience they put less suppression in this type because the maximum abuse is limited by the foot of wire. But still a lot better than nothing. And no brand-matching needed.



> the customer wants whole house surge suppression.

I am STRONGLY in favor of suppression for MY house. The up-sell may be more dubious for the average customer. For a customer who wants suppression, this is easy money, you should do it. (At least the estimate...)

When you CARE (as for yourself), try to do it right. First get ALL services (power, phone, cable) *together*, and very preferably underground.

I used to live on a ridge with much lightning. Somehow I had underground power but overhead telephone. Every near-miss would induct on the overhead phone and return on the dirt-rods and underground power feeder. THROUGH answering machines and modems. I was replacing those things several times each summer. We also had a hit on a tree just behind the house which damaged a very expensive microwave oven. We also had no phones for a week.

When we screamed at the phone company many times, we got the phone put under ground (wires had been laid with the power but never connected), a newer carbon-block, and never lost another answerer or modem.

Tie ALL your grounds together!! Follow NEC as best as you can interpret (IMHO their language sucks). My meter pole also hosts my phone and cable. The meter/service had dirt rods, but the phone and cable drove their own short rod not bonded to power ground. A dirt-rod here is 100 Ohms, so the services were far from the "same" ground. Everyday we had bad hummy phone and TV, and what happens in a lightning near-strike? I bolted the ground jumpers together and it was much better. Inside the house power and phone were mounted together but cable came in the long way. I brought the cable over to the same backboard before any taps. All my service-entrance grounds are on a 2-foot board. I installed one of those new ground-blocks so LV technicians do not have to go inside the fusebox for a ground (which they may do badly or not at all). #6 from block to fusebox ground bus near the entrance. Telco-standard (#8?) from demarcation, #12 for cable.

In electronics a 3-stage filter may work 1,000 times better than a 1-stage. Surge suppressors work by forcing a voltage-sag against the wire feeding them. You have at least two potentially saggy wires: the service from the street, and the run to the wall-outlet. Put a whole-house suppressor at the main panel, plus a suppressor at each valuable load. If your meter and main panel are separated (3 feet in some houses but 50 feet here), consider suppression at the meter, at the main panel, and at selected loads.

For at-load suppression I like Belkin 10-Outlet Surge Protector F9D1001-15-DP (H-D). It is maybe not the best suppressor out there, but is very reasonably priced, well-made (all metal), and can cover an elaborate entertainment center or small server cluster all on one box. Put several on the estimate. If the customer vetos them, that's his mistake, not yours.
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Old 02-16-2015, 07:11 PM   #13
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I've installed several different units over the years. I sell them and have them on my main panel and two of my subpanels. No gimmick.
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Old 02-16-2015, 07:14 PM   #14
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Surge assure. 10 year $100k warranty. Comes with phone and t.v protection as well.
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Old 02-16-2015, 07:43 PM   #15
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Surge assure. 10 year $100k warranty. Comes with phone and t.v protection as well.
Surge warranties typically have in the fine print that they cover the homeowner insurance deductible if multiple conditions are met.
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Old 02-16-2015, 08:55 PM   #16
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Do Canadians not like mike Holm's? I would think you guys would like him since he preaches doing things right and having the right people do it.
He's not the "hero of the Canadian tradespeople" they would have you believe on TV. I would probably have more respect for him if he was a Red Seal Licensed tradesperson.

I like the way he promotes the "right person for the job" attitude and he pushes permits and inspections and top quality work but otherwise...I think he's a douche
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Old 02-16-2015, 08:59 PM   #17
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He's not the "hero of the Canadian tradespeople" they would have you believe on TV. I would probably have more respect for him if he was a Red Seal Licensed tradesperson.

I like the way he promotes the "right person for the job" attitude and he pushes permits and inspections and top quality work but otherwise...I think he's a douche
He is a lot better than any of the other junk on hgtv.

I have the in panel style in my house. It is a ge panel. I have only ever done the in panel style.

Menards here has the mike Holmes surge suppressors.
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Old 02-16-2015, 09:01 PM   #18
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He is a lot better than any of the other junk on hgtv.
That he is
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Old 02-16-2015, 11:50 PM   #19
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I know a guy that installs these all the time for his customers. He never lets them see the original packaging because he think the pic of him on the box is tacky and seems very unprofessional, I agree with that totally. He has a plain box that he reuses for every job.
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Old 02-16-2015, 11:53 PM   #20
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Will be doing a panel swap and the customer wants whole house surge suppression. Any recommendations? I see Square Diddley makes one. How do you hook them up?

Probably a gimmick but the customer gets what he wants, right ?
Eaton makes whole house surge suppressors. Your fellow countryman Mike Holmes has his face plastered over them.
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