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Old 11-24-2010, 02:07 PM   #81
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Selling an imperfect device as mandated per code, selling an infertile tool to test imperfect device. Gotta luv the American way when it comes to big business.
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Old 11-24-2010, 02:17 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Brown View Post
OH and one more thing I wanted to mention, to those of you that may have watched the Siemens arc fault tester video,
It's one thing to tell a home owner the problem is with her old ugly ass lamp. quite another to "dis" her vacuum or new flat screen!


Yep, welcome to the club.

Have you had a H/O that demand you change the breaker to non-AFCI anyway? How did you handle that?
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Old 11-24-2010, 03:41 PM   #83
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To: Al13Cu29, Yes I've had a few home owners ask us to take out afci breakers and replace them with standard ones.

I tell them sorry, it's a national code and I would be liable if I were to put anything other then a code approved breaker in.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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Old 11-26-2010, 07:02 PM   #84
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To: Al13Cu29, Yes I've had a few home owners ask us to take out afci breakers and replace them with standard ones.

I tell them sorry, it's a national code and I would be liable if I were to put anything other then a code approved breaker in.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I tell them that, too, and I don't change it.

What I say is; 'I' can not change it, 'I' will not change it, and that 'I' will not put my licence on the line to do that change. Funny how later, if I were to go back to the house for something else, the AFCI is gone.

I did not asked what happened to it.
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Old 04-11-2011, 05:45 PM   #85
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I started a AFCI discussion on here awhile back - It was called "WTF these AFCI breakers" I'm sorry to say the problems I brought up there have not really gone away.

We switched from GE to square D it seemed to get a little better. But there is still a lot of nuisance tripping service calls.

I talked to a square D rep the other day. he addmitted they know that there are new flat screen TVs out that, when showing a dark scene in a movie and the scene changes quickly to a lighter scene the fluctuation in current WILL cause a AFCI Breaker to trip. This would explain about half the scervice calls I get!!!!! When I asked him what an electrical contractor is suppose to do to solve the problem...... he had no idea.

Great.

I'm currently looking for a new career
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Old 04-11-2011, 05:46 PM   #86
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After complaining to square D reps about ongoing service calls with random AFCI tripping. I finally have something I can give the home owners!
Naturaly we check to make sure we have not wired something wrong or that there may be a faulty appliance or cord. But after that has been ruled out all we can do is blame their appliances or power companys.

It's time the manufacters start dealing with these problems not the contracters that are struggling to keep the doors open.

Have home owners go to www.afcisafety.org this is very pro afci breaker site however down the left hand margine see - AFCI Unwanted tripping form. Home owners fill out the info and submit.

Maybe after a few 1000 replies they will see there is a problem with these things. At least in the Denver area there is. Doesn't seem to be as big an issue in other parts of the country.
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:16 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Brown View Post
After complaining to square D reps about ongoing service calls with random AFCI tripping. I finally have something I can give the home owners!
Naturaly we check to make sure we have not wired something wrong or that there may be a faulty appliance or cord. But after that has been ruled out all we can do is blame their appliances or power companys.

It's time the manufacters start dealing with these problems not the contracters that are struggling to keep the doors open.

Have home owners go to www.afcisafety.org this is very pro afci breaker site however down the left hand margine see - AFCI Unwanted tripping form. Home owners fill out the info and submit.

Maybe after a few 1000 replies they will see there is a problem with these things. At least in the Denver area there is. Doesn't seem to be as big an issue in other parts of the country.
Maybe it's time to lobby and petition to rescind this AFCI code since they are unproven and unperfected and primarily a revenue generator for big business.
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:42 PM   #88
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Maybe it's time to lobby and petition to rescind this AFCI code since they are unproven and unperfected and primarily a revenue generator for big business.
How do you know they're unproven? Everything is a revenue generator.
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Old 04-11-2011, 08:09 PM   #89
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If you've passed final. Replace the nuisance afci's with normal old breakers.
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Old 04-11-2011, 08:11 PM   #90
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Never had to install an AFCI circuit breaker until about 6 months ago on a new house I wired. We used all Cutler Hammer BR AFCI's and haven't had any issues whatsoever. Take it easy on the staples and use good equipment next time.
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Old 04-11-2011, 08:14 PM   #91
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Selling an imperfect device as mandated per code, selling an infertile tool to test imperfect device. Gotta luv the American way when it comes to big business.

Makes sense. They were smart to mandate them. $4.00 for a regular breaker versus $35.00 for an arc fault. Wish I would have thought of it first.
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Old 04-11-2011, 09:23 PM   #92
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Maybe it's time to lobby and petition to rescind this AFCI code since they are unproven and unperfected and primarily a revenue generator for big business.
Not only are big businesses profiting from selling their valued customers AFCI circuit breakers, small businesses are too. I'd rather sell and install circuit breakers all day.
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Old 04-11-2011, 09:49 PM   #93
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Solution is to replace AFC fault with regular breaker when nuisance tripping and re-use it on next job

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Old 04-11-2011, 09:53 PM   #94
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Solution is to replace AFC fault with regular breaker when nuisance tripping and re-use it on next job

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Old 04-11-2011, 10:05 PM   #95
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WIRED A 2000 SQ.FT HOUSE 2 YEARS AGO, USED HOME- LINE SQ.D ARC FAULT BREAKERS, NEVER HAD ONE TRIP... HAPPY TIMES? LUCK OF THE DRAW OR WHAT?
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:31 PM   #96
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We have had to use afci since 08, so i can list a lot of issues with them from experience.here are the 4 most common reasons,(paraphrased)
1)neutral and grounds must not touch anywhere within ckt,often when you roll a receptacle back to install the ground wants to loop and contact with neutral
2)if you share a neutral.. say, neutrals not isolated in box (seperate ckts)
3) motor load will also trip them, chopsaws,drills,grinders tile saws etc.
4)junk breakers.. They are mass produced. back in the early 1990's motorolla mass produced the high frequency ballasts for flourescent lights. We would buy thousands a month (poco/business owner lighting deal) and about 20% were bad from factory. im sure these are probably going to have same issues for a while
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:44 PM   #97
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Never had to install an AFCI circuit breaker until about 6 months ago on a new house I wired. We used all Cutler Hammer BR AFCI's and haven't had any issues whatsoever. Take it easy on the staples and use good equipment next time.
Did you just say that Cutler BR breakers are quality equipment?.
I just puked a little in my mouth

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Old 04-11-2011, 10:57 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Mike Brown View Post
After complaining to square D reps about ongoing service calls with random AFCI tripping. I finally have something I can give the home owners!
Naturaly we check to make sure we have not wired something wrong or that there may be a faulty appliance or cord. But after that has been ruled out all we can do is blame their appliances or power companys.

It's time the manufacters start dealing with these problems not the contracters that are struggling to keep the doors open.

Have home owners go to www.afcisafety.org this is very pro afci breaker site however down the left hand margine see - AFCI Unwanted tripping form. Home owners fill out the info and submit.

Maybe after a few 1000 replies they will see there is a problem with these things. At least in the Denver area there is. Doesn't seem to be as big an issue in other parts of the country.
Mike that problem can go away fast increase your service call charge till they stop calling you...

When they here that it will be $160..

They will learn to reset them fast..

You are not responsible for AFCI breakers tripping unless you have lose splices screws or damaged cable because of your install..Otherwise charge them for a regular service call even if your there for 10 minutes..
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:49 PM   #99
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Breaker companies are blaming faulty appliances and equipment. Not that the equipment is causing an "arc" but some manufactures don't meet USA specs that the breaker company match their breakers up to. I say, that it's still on the breaker manufacture because they are tripping on things 'other than' an arc. That's a poor design. They should require a recall and removal of the requirement to install them until the make one that 'only' trips on arc faults.

Another issue I have with one of the reasons for demanding arc fault breakers is because of staple damage to a wire.... so they make us install $40.00 breakers.... instead of requiring electricians to use a "Plastic" staple instead of those damn metal staples! HELLO!! drive a metal staple into thin plastic sheath and what do you ask for?? I haven't used metal staples for over 10 years. I only had to find one incident where some idiot drove a staple in too hard and caused a circuit to "Short out" NOT "an Arc" and I was smart enough to say,"Hey... that's not a good idea... why do they make metal staples for soft NM Cable anyway??"

Some will say metal staples are much cheaper... are they really?... look how much money we're spending on breakers because of them?

I say ban metal staples for use with NM cable, and make the manufactures go back to the drawing board and come up with a better design before demanding AFIC breakers.

Here's another pet peeve of mine. Stab in the back receptacles. They don't work. Never have. Yet another reason for requiring AFCI is because of what a 1500w space heater will do to one of them with loose connection. Why are they still acceptable? Because of speed? sure... because you people who install them, move onto the next job (or town) and don't have to trouble shoot them years down the road. I guess I make a living fixing your time saving practices, so I shouldn't complain ;-)

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Old 04-12-2011, 12:42 AM   #100
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Did you just say that Cutler BR breaker are quality equipment?.
I just puked a little in my mouth
Yes, I did.

You must not know a lot about good equipment.
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