Old fluorescent ballasts from the 50s, 60s and 70s! - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum > Electrical Trade Topics > Vintage Electrical


Like Tree5Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-11-2010, 10:48 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Riviere-du-Loup, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 6
Rewards Points: 10
Default Old fluorescent ballasts from the 50s, 60s and 70s!

I have a particular interest for old fluorescent ballasts, the older the better! I found most of them in the scrap metal container at the local recycle centre. I've been quite surprised by the age of some of them!



Let's begin by these three. They've been made (from top to bottom) in 1971, 1962 and 1967. The only working one is the little one from 1967. I kept the empty case of the top one, and I've been dumb enough to throw away the middle one.... Fortunately I found today a similar ballast from the same year, but working! I found the three pictured almost two years ago.



More recent finds this time. Here are two ballasts from 1964, only the bottom one is working unfortunately.



Another one, also from 1964. It works, but the case is live for some reason (I learned it the hard way LOL)



And now the highlight! A GE ballast from September 1959! Amazingly it works like a charm, no noise. I don't know if it gets very hot, probably not, considering its (impressive) half-century of service!
M400APowrDoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Join Contractor Talk

Join the #1 Electrician Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

ElectricianTalk.com - Are you a Professional Electrical Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for electricians to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your specialty is you'll find that ElectricianTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!

Join ElectricianTalk.com - Click Here JOIN FOR FREE


Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ElectricianTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-12-2010, 01:39 AM   #2
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,180
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M400APowrDoor View Post
I have a particular interest for old fluorescent ballasts, the older the better! I found most of them in the scrap metal container at the local recycle centre.!
They've been made (from top to bottom) in 1971, 1962 and 1967. Here are two ballasts from 1964.
Another one, also from 1964.
Wear rubber gloves while handling those.
I had a public works job for a suburb of Chicago. I was on the safety committee. I received a memo from the health department which explained about fluorescent ballast PCB's. That read something like this.
Polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) have been used as coolants and lubricants in transformers, capacitors,
heating/cooling equipment, and other electrical equipment. PCBs have not been manufactured
in the United States since 1977, but may still be found in older electrical equipment and other
building materials, like light ballasts. PCBs have been associated with acne-like skin conditions in
adults and changes in the nervous and immune system in children. PCBs are also known to cause
cancer in laboratory animals and are probable human carcinogens.6 PCB or PCB-contaminated items
require proper off-site transport and disposal at a facility that can accept such wastes. Fluorescent light ballasts manufactured before 1978 may contain PCBs. Ballasts manufactured after January 1, 1978 should not contain PCBs and are required by law to contain a label that states that no PCBs are present within the units.
PCBs can be rapidly absorbed through the skin. Experts with the National Institute of Health speculate that, due to the transport of PCBs on dust particles, the current primary route of exposure of most people (non-fish-eaters) to PCBs is through skin exposure.
I had to the train the rest of the crew and give them respirator qualative fits test with banana oil. While they were in a plastic tent that I made according to specs, I had to time them running in place with a stop watch. Here is the protocol:

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...RDS&p_id=10290
The Lightman is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to The Lightman For This Useful Post:
electricnut (01-28-2011), Introyble (08-12-2010), mikeykcl (05-31-2012), ramsy (09-14-2010), The_Modifier (04-13-2011)
Old 08-12-2010, 01:44 AM   #3
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,180
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Within three weeks of getting the memo, I get a work order. Leaking ballast at the Senior center. Sure enough the ballast was pre '74 and leaking. I had to call it in. The fire department was called and the place was evacuated. Hazmat team borrowed my channel locks, strippers and nut driver. The contaminated ballast was removed by a side job fireman electrician. Then, it went through a series of kiddy pool treatments, along with my tools. I got them back about three months later.

Last edited by The Lightman; 08-12-2010 at 02:34 AM.
The Lightman is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-12-2010, 01:50 AM   #4
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,180
Rewards Points: 500
Default

The EPA shut down the building and took weekly ppm readings for about two months before anyone could enter the building. Then it was unlimited OT for the next eight months until every city building fluorescent ballast was replaced. We had to wear masks, suits, booties, like ghostbusters. The old ballasts were baggied and were shipped off in sealed drums.

Last edited by The Lightman; 08-12-2010 at 02:35 AM.
The Lightman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2010, 01:51 AM   #5
Wire Ninja
 
MDShunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Beautiful Cumberland Valley, in PA
Posts: 20,984
Rewards Points: 1,421
Default

Our tax dollars at work. Call me crazy, but I really think some of this stuff they go really overboard on.
tmessner likes this.
__________________
One reason not to give DIY advice:
Catch a man a fish and you can sell it to him.
Teach a man to fish and you’ve ruined a good business opportunity.
MDShunk is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MDShunk For This Useful Post:
bauler (09-17-2010), captkirk (08-22-2010)
Old 08-12-2010, 02:02 AM   #6
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,180
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Seeing those pics, flashed back the story. It was insane. After changing so many up to then, without a care. I got real fast, though after changing literately thousands.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf pcb.pdf (92.2 KB, 567 views)

Last edited by The Lightman; 08-12-2010 at 03:32 AM.
The Lightman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2010, 02:14 AM   #7
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,180
Rewards Points: 500
Default They got real serious

The purpose of this fact sheet is to provide some basic information on chlorinates (PCBs) and guidelines for handling PCBs in fluorescent light fixtures. Though the precautionary actions described in this fact sheet may seem extreme, or suggest to some that cleanup of a small PCB spill is personally hazardous, this is not generally so. For example, if you should get a small amount of PCB on your skin during cleanup, it is highly unlikely that you would be harmed. However, given the nature of PCBs and the fact that much is still unknown about the effects of minor exposure, no absolute guarantees or reassurances can be given.
For that reason, EPA has chosen to describe a conservative approach which minimizes personal hazard. It is EPA’s hope that this information will inform you rather than alarm you.
What are PCBs
PCBs belong to a broad family organic chemicals known as chlorinated hydrocarbons. These are produced by the combination of one or more chlorine atoms and a biphenyl molecule. PCBs range in consistency from heavy oil liquids to waxy solids. Prior to 1979, PCBs were widely used in electrical equipment such as transformers, capacitors, switches and voltage
regulators for their “cooling” properties because they do not readily burn or conduct electricity, and only boil at high temperatures. Also, PCBs do not readily react with other chemicals. They were also used in mining equipment, heat transfer and hydraulic systems, carbonless copy paper, pigments and microscopy mounting media.
How Does EPA Regulate PCBs?
EPA regulates PCBs through rules issued pursuant to the Toxic Substances Control Act of 1976. These regulations generally control the use, making, storage, records and disposal of PCBs. There are millions of pieces of equipment in operation in the U.S. which were manufactured prior to these regulations and which contain PCBs.
Small Capacitors in Fluorescent Light Ballast’s and Cause for Failure
Light ballast’s are the primary electric components of fluorescent light fixtures and are generally located within the fixture under a metal cover plate. The ballast units are generally composed of a transformer to reduce the incoming voltage, a small capacitor (which may contain PCBs) and possibly a thermal cut-off switch and/or safety fuse. These components are surrounded by a tarlike substance that is designed to muffle the noise that is inherent in the operation of the ballast. This substance covers the small capacitor. When a ballast unit fails, excessive heat can be generated which will melt or burn the tar material, creating a characteristic foul order.

www.deq.state.mi.us LANSING MI
Small Capacitors in Fluorescent Light Ballast’s and Cause for Failure (continued) Light ballast’s are the primary electric components of fluorescent light fixtures and are generally located within the fixture under a metal cover plate. The ballast units are generally composed of a transformer to reduce the incoming voltage, a small capacitor (which may contain PCBs) and possibly a thermal cut-off switch and/or safety fuse. These components are surrounded by a tarlike substance that is designed to muffle the noise that is inherent in the operation of the ballast. This substance covers the small capacitor. When a ballast unit fails, excessive heat can be generated which will melt or burn the tar material, creating a characteristic foul order. In considering causes of ballast failure, some privately conducted tests have indicated that operation of power saving lamps with a standard ballast or standard lamps with a power-saving ballast tends to significantly increase the ballast operating temperature and decrease its normal life span. It appears that ballast’s will failless frequently if standard lamps are used only with standard bulbs and power-saving lamps with power-saving ballast’s. Fluorescent lamps should be changed in pairs: new lamps should not be used with old lamps. In considering causes of ballast failure, some privately conducted tests have indicated that operation of power saving lamps with a standard ballast or standard lamps with a power-saving ballast tends to significantly increase the ballast operating temperature and decrease its normal life span. It appears that ballast’s will fail less frequently if standard lamps are used only with standard bulbs and power-saving lamps with power-saving ballast’s. Fluorescent lamps should be changed in pairs: new lamps should not be used with old lamps.
Does Your Fluorescent Light Ballast Contain PCBs
Before EPA banned the manufacturing of PCBs in 1978, PCBs were used in the manufacturing of fluorescent light ballast’s. The use of PCBs in ballast’s manufactured prior to 1978 is not regulated by EPA. All light ballast’s manufactured since 1978 which do not contain PCBs should be marked by the manufacturer with the statement “No PCBs.” For those ballast’s manufactures prior to 1978, or for those ballast’s which contain no statement regarding PCB content, you should assume that they do contain PCBs.
If the ballast does contain PCBs, they are located inside the small capacitor. These would be approximately 1to 1 l/2 ounces of PCB fluid in the capacitor itself. If the ballast fails, the capacitor may break open, allowing the PCB oil to drip out of the fixture. The capacitor does not always leak when the ballast fails, but when it does happen, measures should be taken to limit or avoid personal exposure.
What Should I Do if My Light Ballast Leaks
EPA has these recommendations for anyone with fluorescent light ballast leaking PCBs:
1. Vacate the room or area immediately and open any windows to ventilate the room to the outside. If the incident occurred in a room which cannot be vented, the person replacing the failed ballast and cleaning up can reduce exposure by wearing a chemical cartridge respirator equipped with an organic vapor cartridge.
2. Turn off the light fixture at the switch and disconnect electricity at the fuse or breaker box. Let the ballast cool for 20-30 minutes before proceeding.
If the room is fully ventilated, the amount of PCB contaminated particulate matter in the air should decrease significantly enough to make negligible and risk from breathing.
3. Wear rubber gloves that will not absorb PCBs (e.g. neoprene, butyl, or nitrile). Further, if you will be working directly under the fixture, consider using additional protective gear such as goggles (or a face shield) and rubber apron to help guard against possible exposure from further leaking or cleanup activities. Exercise caution to avoid personal contamination’s (e.g. from touching your face with a contaminated glove).
4.During the cleanup or removal period, smoking should be prohibited in the area because smoking increases the inhalation rate of contaminated air. In addition, you may be using a flammable solvent in the cleanup.Remove the fluorescent lamp.
5. Recheck that the power is off at the fuse or breaker box. Remove the metal cover over the wiring and ballast unit, loosen the ballast unit by taking out the metal screws which hold it to the end of the fixture; cut the electrical wires going to the ballast and remove the ballast. Note: Wire connectors can be used when installing new ballast.
6. Proceed to clean up leaks using the following guidelines:
PCBs that leak onto nonabsorbent surfaces such as table tops and uncarpeted floors should first be cleaned up by wiping with a rag or paper towel or by scraping with a putty knife if hardened. Avoid smearing the PCB around. This would only contaminate a larger area. Surfaces should then be thoroughly cleaned twice using an appropriate solvent or detergent. Only certain solvents are effective in cleaning up spilled PCBs. These include mineral spirits, deodorized kerosene, turpentine and rubbing alcohol. Certain detergents containing trisodium phosphate (such as “Soilex” or “Spit ‘n Span”) may be used. However, they should be used only at full strength and applied with a damp rag rather than diluted in a bucket. That solution would become contaminated and cannot be legally disposed of in the sewer system. Some of the other effective detergent products (which are commercially available)
include “Triton X-l 00” (Rohm-Hass), “Sterox” (Monsanto), and “Power Cleaner 155” (Penetone Corp.). EPA does not endorse these particular products. Other effective products may also be available. For leaks onto absorbent material such as drapes and carpets, there is no reliable way to clean and decontaminate the material. In the case of rugs and fabrics, the material should be cut away in a six inch radius around the contaminated point(s). In areas where foot traffic has spread contamination the entire carpet should be disposed of. Proper disposal procedures for all such materials are described in the following section. Associated surfaces, such as flooring under contaminated carpeting, should be thoroughly cleaned with a solvent or detergent as previously described.
7. Contaminated materials (ballast’s, rags, contaminated clothing, gloves, drapes, carpets, etc) should be packed into crumpled newspapers or other sorbent materials (sawdust, kitty litter, vermiculite, soil, etc.) and placed in a double thickness plastic bag. After containing the PCBs, a disposal facility should be contacted for pickup, manifesting and shipment. The PCB materials will be packed in a drum approved for PCBs by the Department of Transportation and finally disposed of at an EPA approved site.
(One might consider discarding the entire light fixture instead of decontaminating the unit. This would eliminate the chance of skin coming into direct contact with the PCBs while cleaning inside the light fixture.)
When you are completely through with the cleanup process, and contaminated materials and protective clothing have been packed for disposal, you should wash your hands thoroughly with detergent. Continue to ventilate the room for 24 hours before reuse.
How to Get Rid of Your PCBs
Arrangements must be made with a facility for the pick-up, manifesting and shipment of ballast’s, PCB-soiled
items or fluorescent fixtures containing PCBs, to an EPA approved chemical waste processing site. These firms will also perform minor PCB spill cleanups and arrange for the removal of PCB capacitors.
If you have further questions, please call EPA’s regional office in Chicago at 3121886-6832, Toxic Program Section.
Non-leaking small PCB capacitors (lighting ballast’s) are not required to be incinerated. They should be placed in a U.S. DOT approved drum with adequate absorbent, and disposal of in an approved landfill unless regulated under N.R.E.P.A. 451 PA 1994: Part 111 (hazardous waste regulations). NOTE: PCB’s are not regulated as hazardous waste, however there may be other components in the ballast which would cause it to test out as a hazardous waste.
* this fact sheet has been duplicated and updated from a prior EPA publication
(doc/y/PCBs.doc/l120/97/EAB)

Last edited by The Lightman; 08-12-2010 at 02:17 AM.
The Lightman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2010, 02:21 AM   #8
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,180
Rewards Points: 500
Default How can I tell if a ballast manufactured by GE Lighting contains PCBs?

All high-power-factor fluorescent lamp ballasts manufactured by GE Lighting prior to May 1977 include a small metal capacitor (an electronic device used to store an electrical charge) that contains approximately 10 grams of PCB fluid. The capacitors in our fluorescent lamp ballasts manufactured after January 1, 1979, do not contain PCBs. Ballasts manufactured between May 1 977 and January 1, 1979, may include either type of capacitor. To find out if your GE Lighting ballast contains PCBs, look for the two-letter date code that’s stamped into the mounting feet at one end of the fluorescent ballast, and then check the chart below to find the month and year of manufacture. Ballasts manufactured after January 1, 1979, do not contain PCBs. If the ballast was manufactured between May 1977 and January 1, 1979, look additionally for the catalog number on the label attached to the top of the ballast. If the catalog number contains a “W,” the ballast does NOT contain PCBs. (Ballasts manufactured after January 1, 1979, have “No PCB” printed on the label.)
The Lightman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2010, 02:23 AM   #9
Wire Ninja
 
MDShunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Beautiful Cumberland Valley, in PA
Posts: 20,984
Rewards Points: 1,421
Default

Lightman, you're really into this ****, aren't you?
__________________
One reason not to give DIY advice:
Catch a man a fish and you can sell it to him.
Teach a man to fish and you’ve ruined a good business opportunity.
MDShunk is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MDShunk For This Useful Post:
jza (05-08-2012)
Old 08-12-2010, 02:32 AM   #10
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,180
Rewards Points: 500
Default

It was quite an experience. Yes, I'm in it real bad.
The Lightman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2010, 02:42 AM   #11
Wire Ninja
 
MDShunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Beautiful Cumberland Valley, in PA
Posts: 20,984
Rewards Points: 1,421
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lightman View Post
It was quite an experience. Yes, I'm in it real bad.
I've just never seen a guy got so excited over old ballasts. I just cut 'em out and chuck 'em in the bin.
__________________
One reason not to give DIY advice:
Catch a man a fish and you can sell it to him.
Teach a man to fish and you’ve ruined a good business opportunity.
MDShunk is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MDShunk For This Useful Post:
bauler (09-17-2010), JoeKP (08-12-2010)
Old 08-12-2010, 02:44 AM   #12
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,180
Rewards Points: 500
Default

I stay excited.
The Lightman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2010, 02:45 AM   #13
Wire Ninja
 
MDShunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Beautiful Cumberland Valley, in PA
Posts: 20,984
Rewards Points: 1,421
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lightman View Post
I stay excited.
My mother used to say, "Simple minds, simple pleasures".
__________________
One reason not to give DIY advice:
Catch a man a fish and you can sell it to him.
Teach a man to fish and you’ve ruined a good business opportunity.
MDShunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2010, 02:47 AM   #14
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,180
Rewards Points: 500
Default

No Mama jokes. We are being moderated!

Last edited by The Lightman; 08-12-2010 at 02:49 AM.
The Lightman is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to The Lightman For This Useful Post:
itsunclebill (06-16-2019)
Old 08-12-2010, 02:52 AM   #15
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,180
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDShunk View Post
I've just never seen a guy got so excited over old ballasts.
Don't call them old. They're mature! oops, wrong forum.
The Lightman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2010, 02:54 AM   #16
Wire Ninja
 
MDShunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Beautiful Cumberland Valley, in PA
Posts: 20,984
Rewards Points: 1,421
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lightman View Post
Don't call them old. They're mature! oops, wrong forum.
If you start to post BILF videos, (Ballast I'd like to...), you're so outta here.
__________________
One reason not to give DIY advice:
Catch a man a fish and you can sell it to him.
Teach a man to fish and you’ve ruined a good business opportunity.
MDShunk is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MDShunk For This Useful Post:
electrictim510 (04-14-2011), JoeKP (08-12-2010)
Old 08-12-2010, 03:07 AM   #17
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,180
Rewards Points: 500
Default

There are some cute little HID electronic ballast out there. I'm more into LED drivers lately. No vids yet.
The Lightman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2010, 07:46 AM   #18
Electric Al
 
oldtimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,823
Rewards Points: 2,306
Default

Guys; I have a small collection of antique light bulbs, devices, etc.

See ; electrical photos.
oldtimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2010, 12:25 PM   #19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Riviere-du-Loup, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 6
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Thanks for being worried about my health! But, I am already aware of PCBs in ballasts. Most of the PCB is sealed into the capacitor (about an ounce). As long as the cap doesn't leak, the risk is quite low. I never came across a leaking ballast, but in the case I eventually do, I won't take it!

It takes a serious overheat to blow a cap. It happens the most when people install those 34W energy-saving tubes in older, full power fixture. Doing so quickly overheats the ballast. The thermal protection eventually kicks in, but it's not the most reliable protection. Otherwise the cap is completely sealed, there's no big risk, and I don't handle a huge amount of these... I have NEVER seen or heard of a cap blown from normal use (appropriate lamps).

Oh and also, you probably noticed my ballasts are actually CANADIAN ballasts. Their date code doesn't work the same way.
M400APowrDoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2010, 01:33 PM   #20
Wire Ninja
 
MDShunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Beautiful Cumberland Valley, in PA
Posts: 20,984
Rewards Points: 1,421
Default

Seems like PCB's were an element of the potting compound in a goodly many of them also.
__________________
One reason not to give DIY advice:
Catch a man a fish and you can sell it to him.
Teach a man to fish and you’ve ruined a good business opportunity.
MDShunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need some HID ballasts changed........ Speedy Petey General Electrical Discussion 9 05-22-2010 04:57 PM
Experience with non-standard BF fluorescent ballasts? Electric_Light Lighting Design 5 05-15-2010 06:26 PM
Old t-12 ballasts? Drivewizard Lighting Design 53 04-09-2010 06:56 PM
Ballasts BIGRED General Electrical Discussion 1 05-05-2009 08:17 PM
fluorescent ballasts BuzzKill General Electrical Discussion 11 04-28-2009 01:48 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PaintTalk.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com