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Old 12-09-2018, 11:22 AM   #1
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I’m JW out of lu100 CA. My Question is if a CE has 8000 hrs working under a c10 Contractor. what is to stop them from applying for the ca state certification on there own,and becoming a JW without going threw the Apprenticeship program
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Old 12-09-2018, 11:31 AM   #2
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The Union.

Not sure if they have a challenge program down where you are at, but you may look into it.

I don't doubt you have the technical ability, but you may lack some of the education, code, and theory.

You may be able to challenge it though and bump yourself up to a 2nd or 3rd year.
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Old 12-09-2018, 11:49 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Sap View Post
Iím JW out of lu100 CA. My Question is if a CE has 8000 hrs working under a c10 Contractor. what is to stop them from applying for the ca state certification on there own,and becoming a JW without going threw the Apprenticeship program
Don't let anybody hold you back from obtaining education, licenses and certifications because of your "class".

Sorry didn't realize you were a 3rd party. Some people need the structure of the IBEW's apprenticeship. Other people do not. It's not the military if a guy can become qualified to do the work without the IBEW's program then more power to them.

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Old 12-09-2018, 12:01 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Sap View Post
I’m JW out of lu100 CA. My Question is if a CE has 8000 hrs working under a c10 Contractor. what is to stop them from applying for the ca state certification on there own,and becoming a JW without going threw the Apprenticeship program
What do they consider proof of hours to apply for the state certification? Do you need any education as well?
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:16 PM   #5
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What do they consider proof of hours to apply for the state certification? Do you need any education as well?
The state and the union have different qualifications.

The state has several levels of Electrical and related classifications.

General Journeyman - 8000 hours of OJT (You can perform any type of work you just can't contract work)

Residential Journeyman - 4800 hours of OJT

Fire/Life - 4000 hours of OJT

Voice/Data/Video - 4000 hours of OJT

Lighting Tech - 2000 hours of OJT

I believe there is a requirement for schooling, but when I just looked at the application and the states website, it only lists the hours. I thought there was something that required it, I just can't find it.

The Union however will not necessarily accept your state license. You can have a license, a contractors license, an engineering degree, and have been performing work for 50 years. If you didn't go through an apprenticeship program, that's your problem. I do believe that most though will let you take a challenge test, to show you know your stuff.
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:19 PM   #6
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The union requires a certain amount of classroom time, I thought it was 680 hours over the 5 year program, but I can't remember.

I would want to challenge the test so I could have the higher wages and benefits, but at the same time I would want to take the apprenticeship to gain the knowledge and education I missed out on non-union.
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:44 PM   #7
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@Sap

Did you already get in as a CE/CW or are you in the apprenticeship?
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Old 12-09-2018, 01:20 PM   #8
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nothing stopping them except they may need to take an exam depending on the local, the IBEW constitution would protect them from being excluded, they work in the industry in the jurisdiction, they can be an A JIW member, just may be required to take exam, exam organized guys have to take and if your local doesn't make them take it then they can't make him take it.

and i don't think he needs the 8k hours either.



edit, for union JW, for CA see others posts.
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Old 12-09-2018, 01:26 PM   #9
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nothing stopping them except they may need to take an exam depending on the local, the IBEW constitution would protect them from being excluded, they work in the industry in the jurisdiction, they can be an A JIW member, just may be required to take exam, exam organized guys have to take and if your local doesn't make them take it then they can't make him take it.

and i don't think he needs the 8k hours either.
I think from the original post, he does not have a state require Jman card. So even if he tested out on the IBEW side, he still can't work as a Jman because he doesn't hold a license. He has to have the 8k hours to sit for the state test.

He needs to do two things:

1) He needs to get his state required Jman license.
2) Find out about challenging the IBEW test to skip the apprenticeship, if that is what he desires.
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Old 12-09-2018, 01:34 PM   #10
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I think from the original post, he does not have a state require Jman card. So even if he tested out on the IBEW side, he still can't work as a Jman because he doesn't hold a license. He has to have the 8k hours to sit for the state test.

He needs to do two things:

1) He needs to get his state required Jman license.
2) Find out about challenging the IBEW test to skip the apprenticeship, if that is what he desires.
gotcha, yep i think he is talking about state JW. i have no information on that
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:00 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Switched View Post
The state and the union have different qualifications.

The state has several levels of Electrical and related classifications.

General Journeyman - 8000 hours of OJT (You can perform any type of work you just can't contract work)

Residential Journeyman - 4800 hours of OJT

Fire/Life - 4000 hours of OJT

Voice/Data/Video - 4000 hours of OJT

Lighting Tech - 2000 hours of OJT

I believe there is a requirement for schooling, but when I just looked at the application and the states website, it only lists the hours. I thought there was something that required it, I just can't find it.

The Union however will not necessarily accept your state license. You can have a license, a contractors license, an engineering degree, and have been performing work for 50 years. If you didn't go through an apprenticeship program, that's your problem. I do believe that most though will let you take a challenge test, to show you know your stuff.
What "test"? There is no final exam, or other test to challenge. The only test you can take is for the "accelerated apprenticeship", which is a 3, or 4 year, instead of the 5 year program.
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:11 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by joebanana View Post
What "test"? There is no final exam, or other test to challenge. The only test you can take is for the "accelerated apprenticeship", which is a 3, or 4 year, instead of the 5 year program.
I've heard of some unions having a challenge test for guys coming in outside of the union. Don't know if it was a real thing or not. I know that there really doesn't seem to be any type of consistency from one local to another, so there could be such a test at some of them.
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:56 PM   #13
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What "test"? There is no final exam, or other test to challenge. The only test you can take is for the "accelerated apprenticeship", which is a 3, or 4 year, instead of the 5 year program.
ibew constitution, if they are qualified, they don't need training

Quote:
ARTICLE XIX QUALIFICATIONS OF MEMBERS
Sec. 1. Any worker coming under the I.B.E.W.’s jurisdiction,
of good character, not less than sixteen (16) years of
age, is eligible for membership, provided he passes a satisfactory
examination when required to do so by the L.U.


Sec. 2. If, after being admitted to membership, it is later
found upon investigation that a member is not sufficiently
acquainted with the branch or type of work on which he is
engaged to earn or command the established wages, then a
L.U. can, through its Executive or Examining Board or an especially
appointed committee, require such member to revert
to the proper apprentice grade and pay rate, to attend electrical
study classes or devote time toward becoming a competent,
properly informed electrical mechanic or employee.


Quote:
ARTICLE XV RULES FOR LOCAL UNIONS
Sec. 25. The Examining Board shall supervise the examination
of all applicants for membership to determine their
qualifications for the trade, except for those selected as apprentices
under provisions of the collective bargaining agreement.
They shall review such qualifications of members as
provided in Article XIX of this Constitution.

Quote:
ARTICLE XX ADMISSION OF MEMBERS
Sec. 7. The names of all applicants shall be read or posted at
a regular meeting of the L.U. The presidentshall appoint a committee
to pass and report upon the applications, or the Executive
Board may perform this function as the L.U. may decide.
Sec. 8. If the applicant or applicants are reported upon favorably,
a ballot or vote may be taken as the L.U. may decide,
except as provided in Article XV. If an applicant(s) is
rejected, his or their names shall not again be proposed for
membership for six (6) months, and the admission fee shall
be returned to the applicant. If an applicant is rejected for
membership and the reasons for rejection are found to be
without just cause, the L.U. shall be directed by the I.P. to
immediately accept the applicant into membership.
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Last edited by Wiresmith; 12-09-2018 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 12-10-2018, 03:28 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Wiresmith View Post
ibew constitution, if they are qualified, they don't need training
Which part say's they can skip the apprenticeship? All applicants take test to see if they're qualified to join. Like the aptitude, math, and examining board interview. All locals are different but, I've never heard of anybody skipping the apprenticeship altogether, and coming in as a JW. Even if organized in. I could be wrong, but I've never heard of it.
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Old 12-10-2018, 04:15 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by joebanana View Post
Which part say's they can skip the apprenticeship? All applicants take test to see if they're qualified to join. Like the aptitude, math, and examining board interview. All locals are different but, I've never heard of anybody skipping the apprenticeship altogether, and coming in as a JW. Even if organized in. I could be wrong, but I've never heard of it.
We do that here in Dallas.

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Old 12-11-2018, 11:14 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joebanana View Post
Which part say's they can skip the apprenticeship? All applicants take test to see if they're qualified to join. Like the aptitude, math, and examining board interview. All locals are different but, I've never heard of anybody skipping the apprenticeship altogether, and coming in as a JW. Even if organized in. I could be wrong, but I've never heard of it.
what the constitution is talking about is coming in joining as say an inside wireman for an inside local

notice how they say

Quote:
The Examining Board shall supervise the examination
of all applicants for membership to determine their
qualifications for the trade, except for those selected as apprentices
and

Quote:
If, after being admitted to membership, it is later
found upon investigation that a member is not sufficiently
acquainted with the branch or type of work on which he is
engaged to earn or command the established wages, then a
L.U. can, through its Executive or Examining Board or an especially
appointed committee, require such member to revert
to the proper apprentice grade and pay rate
and
Quote:
provided he passes a satisfactory
examination when required to do so by the L.U.
apprenticeship is for untrained people

page 3 of constitution, before table of contents
Quote:
The objects of the International Brotherhood of
Electrical Workers are:
• To organize all workers in the entire electrical
industry in the United States and Canada, including
all those in public utilities and electrical
manufacturing, into local unions,
notice how it says workers and not employers

the ibew organizes already competent workers right in as normal JIW "A" members. many people don't know this because the locals hide this through their executive board. some members are opposed to organizing individuals but it is a common thread and fundamental part of the IBEW constitution.

our district has a specific test it gives to the locals exam boards to test applicants and if they pass(and are not opposed by membership do to bad character accusations(also in constitution)) they come in as journeyman "a" members no strings attached.
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Old 12-11-2018, 11:21 AM   #17
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Quote:
article 14
Sec. 14. Each L.U. has the power to adopt, or subscribe to,
an apprenticeship system, training program, or helper rules,
as the conditions may require. However, such shall not conflict
with applicable standards or policies of the I.B.E.W. or
to which it is a party.
i guess you also have to look how things are actually structured to, to come to this conclusion. apprenticeship is a different path in, i look at it from the lens of when the ibew was started, they were organizing people already in the trade, they didn't make them go back through an apprenticeship. we never got everyone organized, so we are still supposed to be working on that effort.
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Last edited by Wiresmith; 12-11-2018 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 12-21-2018, 03:17 AM   #18
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In LU428, they have an advanced placement test. So if you have a couple of years or more of Electrical expirence you can take the test and not have to start out at the bottom
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