Protect Apprenticeships - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum > Electrical Trade Topics > Union Topics


Like Tree3Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-09-2019, 04:28 PM   #1
Old Grumpy Bastard
 
MechanicalDVR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Old Dominion"
Posts: 59,900
Rewards Points: 2,212
Default Protect Apprenticeships

The IBEW urgently needs your help to protect our training programs from a pending federal rule that would let businesses run shoddy apprenticeships with minimal standards, oversight and pay.

For now, the construction industry is excluded from the Department of Labor’s proposed Apprenticeship Rule. Public comments being submitted now will help determine whether the exemption stays or goes once a final rule is issued.

While unions and allied contractors are pushing to keep the exemption, nonunion builders are eager to eliminate it, opening up the industry to apprenticeships with lower standards and greater risks.






http://www.ibew.org/media-center/Art...tLccBpUJYcUYGE
__________________
I'm as Christian as possible in the times we live in.

Always just a stallion in a china shop
MechanicalDVR is offline   Reply With Quote
Join Contractor Talk

Join the #1 Electrician Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

ElectricianTalk.com - Are you a Professional Electrical Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for electricians to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your specialty is you'll find that ElectricianTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!

Join ElectricianTalk.com - Click Here JOIN FOR FREE


Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ElectricianTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-09-2019, 05:28 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: So.Cal.
Posts: 3,699
Rewards Points: 7,341
Default

Don't you see where this is going? If everybody outside the construction industry is "required" to go through an apprenticeship, guess what's next? Required certification. I warned of this years ago. Once the states figure out how lucrative requiring certification for employment is, EVERYBODY will have to participate. Gas station attendants, cashier's, auto mechanic's, box boy's, waitresses, landscapers, exterminators, painters, etc. Yesser, the states are going to clean up with this proposal. But, the IBEW will still have one of the best apprenticeship programs out there.
__________________
-------------------------------
~ She thinks I'm crazy, but I'm just growing old~
joebanana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2019, 05:55 PM   #3
Can't Remember
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 9,209
Rewards Points: 178
Default

I'd have to see the language to really see how or if this is bad, furthermore who is backing this. The other thing is, how would this change state mandated education and apprenticeship hours?
Bird dog likes this.

Last edited by nrp3; 08-09-2019 at 05:59 PM.
nrp3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-09-2019, 10:18 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
stiffneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Custer's Last Stand, Missouri, USA
Posts: 530
Rewards Points: 1,032
Default

Bwtn 8-8:05pm cs tried accessing your ibew. Must be offline for maintenance.
Are You trying to protect Your 19th Century European style hiring practices? Nothing is "shoddier" than "Henry's boy" local-1 and "Czech man" local-2.
Here in Saint Louis, we all know this; You don't go to a ibew hiring hall... You don't do that, that's not how business gets done... Unless you already know the results before you get there... Why the continued denial? Is Saint Louis somehow unique?
__________________
In Bred Electrical Worker
stiffneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2019, 08:03 PM   #5
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffneck View Post
Bwtn 8-8:05pm cs tried accessing your ibew. Must be offline for maintenance.
Are You trying to protect Your 19th Century European style hiring practices? Nothing is "shoddier" than "Henry's boy" local-1 and "Czech man" local-2.
Here in Saint Louis, we all know this; You don't go to a ibew hiring hall... You don't do that, that's not how business gets done... Unless you already know the results before you get there... Why the continued denial? Is Saint Louis somehow unique?
I actually have a cousin that recently got into local one . He had zero contacts just has a lot of good experience . He can do controlls pipe work , switch gear , very well
Rounded .

He has nothing but good things to say about this local I guess their very busy right now said he is on a big hospital job bjc I’m wesg county .

I guess everyone’s experience is diff
The.eletrical.worker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2019, 11:18 PM   #6
Old Grumpy Bastard
 
MechanicalDVR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Old Dominion"
Posts: 59,900
Rewards Points: 2,212
Default

Welcome aboard @The.eletrical.worker!

Please take a minute and fill out your profile about me section so we know a little about who we are talking to.

I was hoping you really knew how to spell 'electrical'!
__________________
I'm as Christian as possible in the times we live in.

Always just a stallion in a china shop
MechanicalDVR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2019, 06:29 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Fist of lightning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 162
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MechanicalDVR View Post
The IBEW urgently needs your help to protect our training programs from a pending federal rule that would let businesses run shoddy apprenticeships with minimal standards, oversight and pay.

For now, the construction industry is excluded from the Department of Labor’️s proposed Apprenticeship Rule. Public comments being submitted now will help determine whether the exemption stays or goes once a final rule is issued.

While unions and allied contractors are pushing to keep the exemption, nonunion builders are eager to eliminate it, opening up the industry to apprenticeships with lower standards and greater risks.






http://www.ibew.org/media-center/Art...tLccBpUJYcUYGE
Just went on the io website and filled it out thanks for keeping everyone posted and taking the time to post the link great wrk brotha .

They actually mentioned this at our last meeting let’s put an end to that bill . Thanks again
MechanicalDVR likes this.
Fist of lightning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2019, 06:35 PM   #8
Old Grumpy Bastard
 
MechanicalDVR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Old Dominion"
Posts: 59,900
Rewards Points: 2,212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fist of lightning View Post
Just went on the io website and filled it out thanks for keeping everyone posted and taking the time to post the link great wrk brotha .

They actually mentioned this at our last meeting let’s put an end to that bill . Thanks again
Welcome anytime!
__________________
I'm as Christian as possible in the times we live in.

Always just a stallion in a china shop
MechanicalDVR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2019, 10:26 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: US
Posts: 3,334
Rewards Points: 1,878
Default

I didn't go through the apprenticeship and from what I hear I'm not missing much.

Plus last time I asked the IO for help they gave me the cold shoulder. You'd think after NECA hosted Trump his administration would be more favorable to their interests. Useful idiots I guess.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
TGGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2019, 11:36 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
HertzHound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: East coast
Posts: 619
Rewards Points: 1,060
Default

The point is that any company can come up with their own bulls41t apprenticeship program. From that they can say their guys are enrolled, now pay them squat on prevailing wage jobs.

Another fleecing of the blue collar worker. It’s not a Union/Non-Union thing. The Non-Union electrician has just as much to loose.
MechanicalDVR likes this.
__________________
Why say lot words when few words do trick
HertzHound is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2019, 01:54 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
LawnGuyLandSparky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,380
Rewards Points: 172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HertzHound View Post
The point is that any company can come up with their own bulls41t apprenticeship program. From that they can say their guys are enrolled, now pay them squat on prevailing wage jobs.

Another fleecing of the blue collar worker. It’s not a Union/Non-Union thing. The Non-Union electrician has just as much to loose.

The non-union electrician has just as much to lose, but won't know a thing about it until the deed is done. The non-union electrician contractor has everything to gain - which is the driving force. In their world, a jobsite with 40 "apprentices" and 2 journeymen (or whatever they're calling the equivalent) is the goal.
LawnGuyLandSparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2019, 10:27 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: US
Posts: 3,334
Rewards Points: 1,878
Default

Under the proposed rule, entities such as trade, industry, and employer groups or associations, educational institutions, state and local government entities, non-profit organizations, unions, or a consortium or partnership of these entities could become a Standards Recognition Entity (SRE) that sets standards for training, structure, and curricula for IRAPs in relevant industries or occupational areas.* The SREs would be recognized through the U.S. Department of Labor to ensure that its requirements are met, resulting in only high-quality IRAPs.* This is a similar relationship to the one that exists between the U.S. Department of Education and higher education accrediting bodies.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
TGGT is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TGGT For This Useful Post:
stiffneck (09-07-2019)
Old 08-25-2019, 10:29 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: US
Posts: 3,334
Rewards Points: 1,878
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky View Post
In their world, a jobsite with 40 "apprentices" and 2 journeymen (or whatever they're calling the equivalent) is the goal.
We already have that here in Texas without IRAPS, I guess that's why I don't see what the big deal is.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
TGGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2019, 10:46 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Fist of lightning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 162
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HertzHound View Post
The point is that any company can come up with their own bulls41t apprenticeship program. From that they can say their guys are enrolled, now pay them squat on prevailing wage jobs.

Another fleecing of the blue collar worker. It’️s not a Union/Non-Union thing. The Non-Union electrician has just as much to loose.
Yes absolutely and then they can underbid on all the state and federal
Pw jobs , Bc now they don’t have to pay their men the pw with all the fridge benefits as well . And they won’t have to follow any ratio of men either .

Plus I’m shure their apprenticeship will not be the five years and as many hours . Etc seems like a taste to the bottom with just the contractor benefiting.
Fist of lightning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2019, 10:55 AM   #15
RSE Master Electrician
 
Incognito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 845
Rewards Points: 954
Default

So this is from your federal government?

Up here we have government legislated apprenticeship but it is not easy to become a registered training facility, most of the training facilities are at community colleges. All apprentices, union and non union go to the same trade school.
__________________
2018 Canadian Electrical Code
Incognito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2019, 11:05 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Fist of lightning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 162
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TGGT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnGuyLandSparky View Post
In their world, a jobsite with 40 "apprentices" and 2 journeymen (or whatever they're calling the equivalent) is the goal.
We already have that here in Texas without IRAPS, I guess that's why I don't see what the big deal is.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
And open shop underbids on a lot of jobs Bc of this .while closed shops have to follow a ratio .

If the nonunion apprenticeship program resulted in the men geting paid around the pw wage and getting the workers fringe benifts and five years of highly skilled training , and the contractors would have to follow the ratio of jw to apprentices .

I would be all for it . It would level out the playing feild and bring up workers in general .

But in my opion it seems like a race to the bottom with just the non union contractor benifits .

Now can pay his men low wages , no fringe benies, no retirement, does not have to follow the ratio , and now he can low bid on pw jobs and dosnt have to pay the men jw on those jobs I don’t see
How everyone will benefit except the openshop contractor

I’ve seen it befor I worked for a shop
That only did pw he was openshop.

He fcked us out of the pw didn’t pay us the correct wage for over a year or so until someone filled a complaint . He got a slap on the rist

So after he got a target on him how he got around having to pay his men the pw wage was he payed for them to go to an “ apprenticeship “ and as they were enrolled he now payed them the first year rate in that program , not shure if they got the benies or not . But it was away around having to pay all his men the pw.

And when they graduated and we’re off the pw jobs he still could pay them what ever he wanted their was no set wage or contract to be fit his men .
Fist of lightning is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Fist of lightning For This Useful Post:
HertzHound (08-25-2019)
Old 08-25-2019, 02:39 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: US
Posts: 3,334
Rewards Points: 1,878
Default

Good luck trying to get a Republican DOL to give a $hit about union interests. Associated Builders and Contractors and Associated General Contractors want the new rule, they are steadfast Republican donors.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
TGGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2019, 02:50 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Fist of lightning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 162
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TGGT View Post
Good luck trying to get a Republican DOL to give a $hit about union interests. Associated Builders and Contractors and Associated General Contractors want the new rule, they are steadfast Republican donors.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
Yes they donate a lot of money to the republicans I believe they call them the round table . They started in the 80s yheir mo was to lower labor cost and construction cost .
By undermining union labor and contractors .

A race to the bottom
Fist of lightning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2019, 07:10 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
stiffneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Custer's Last Stand, Missouri, USA
Posts: 530
Rewards Points: 1,032
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MechanicalDVR View Post
Welcome aboard @The.eletrical.worker!

Please take a minute and fill out your profile about me section so we know a little about who we are talking to.

I was hoping you really knew how to spell 'electrical'!

Definitely IBEW material ^^^^^^^^^^^^
Have him drink some coffee or something
__________________
In Bred Electrical Worker
stiffneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 11:45 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
stiffneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Custer's Last Stand, Missouri, USA
Posts: 530
Rewards Points: 1,032
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The.eletrical.worker View Post
I actually have a cousin that recently got into local one . He had zero contacts just has a lot of good experience . He can do controlls pipe work , switch gear , very well
Rounded .

He has nothing but good things to say about this local I guess their very busy right now said he is on a big hospital job bjc I’m wesg county .

I guess everyone’s experience is diff
Of course I can go down to local-1 club and go to work immediately. Start working out of book-3 as a "2nd class citizen" while being expected to pay 1rst class citizenship. The instant (no time delay) the boom economy goes bust I get bumped and why should I subsidize a benefit program I'm not eligible for? You think we don't know this, seen this, experience this before? You want to tell us how many are listed in book-1 as "out of work"... and why? I do know local-1 is desperate for good people. Your reputation has been known for a long time
PS, how is it possible for your cousin to have "a lot of good experience" before joining local-1. That does not compute You see here, only local-1 and 2 know them there wiring things.
So go ahead and tell us who you really are, Local-1 or 2?
__________________
In Bred Electrical Worker
stiffneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PaintTalk.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com