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Old 08-31-2019, 01:40 AM   #1
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Default Mounting VFD

Hey everyone, fairly new to VFds,
I have a customer
That needs a VFD installed on a motor for a blower. It’s a 15hp motor.
As of now we are thinking of mounting the drive outside in a metal enclosure, will there be overheating issues installing this in a non vented enclosure?

The drive being used is a Santerno SINUS M 0020 2S/T

Thanks for any suggestions
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Old 08-31-2019, 10:18 AM   #2
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Almost every VFD I've ever worked on that is installed outside has vents cut into the side to allow air flow. Most also have a small fan to aid in air flow. Depending on where in Canada you may be, I've also seen them with a small strip heater in there too. Usually the fan(s) are on a thermostat, and the heater is on a stat. Used to have PM's set up in the spring and fall to clean and check the stats, fans, heaters, filters, etc. Also check the built in fans on the drive to make sure they are working.
VFD's, as with most electronics, HATE heat. To keep them fault free, they need to be clean and within certain temp tolerances.
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Old 08-31-2019, 10:28 AM   #3
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And they don't like moisture either...

Cheers
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Old 08-31-2019, 12:13 PM   #4
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Put the drive inside.
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Old 08-31-2019, 12:47 PM   #5
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What size is the metal enclosure. Jref has a calculator or knows the way to do the maths for minimum size required.

Some drives are also better at running hot than others. I hate allen bradley drives but the 755 is my go to drive in a hot panel.
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Old 08-31-2019, 01:44 PM   #6
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Going off memory the existing metal enclosure is about 20x20.
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Old 08-31-2019, 09:21 PM   #7
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I saw one mounted on the handle of a floor polisher.
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Old 09-01-2019, 07:51 AM   #8
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Avoid putting it outside if you can. If you can’t, you need ventilation and protection from rain/snow, dust and direct sun exposure. If you seal it up in a non-vented box, the MINIMUM size of the box is 4x the volume of a NEMA one box. So if the drive is 20x20x12, that’s 4800 cu. in., so you would need a minimum of 19,200 cu. in., divided by 16”deep means a 72x60” box, no sun exposure and all sides available to dissipate heat (meaning not against a wall). By the time you do it right, it’s usually cheaper to put it inside.
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Old 09-01-2019, 10:38 AM   #9
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According to your manual, that drive likes around -10 to 50C. You will also need 2" (50 mm) from each side, and 4" (100 mm) from the top and bottom as a minimum.
Your drive is about 235 mm wide x 320 mm high and 190 mm deep. So based on that, your panel needs to be a minimum of 335 mm (13 1/8") x 520 mm (20 1/2"). It's 7" deep, so I'm gonna shoot from the hip and say that a 20x20 box is too small..
There are thousands of drives that are mounted in enclosures installed outside. It can be done, and be problem free, if done correctly..
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Old 09-02-2019, 12:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2604Sparky View Post
Hey everyone, fairly new to VFds,
I have a customer
That needs a VFD installed on a motor for a blower. It’s a 15hp motor.
As of now we are thinking of mounting the drive outside in a metal enclosure, will there be overheating issues installing this in a non vented enclosure?

The drive being used is a Santerno SINUS M 0020 2S/T

Thanks for any suggestions

What climate are we talking about here? In my industry the vast majority of VFD are outside in metal enclosures that are not appropriate for it.



Heat is one of the main killers of VFD IMO. I have one on my desk in pieces because it overheated.
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Old 09-04-2019, 07:43 PM   #11
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What climate are we talking about here? In my industry the vast majority of VFD are outside in metal enclosures that are not appropriate for it.



Heat is one of the main killers of VFD IMO. I have one on my desk in pieces because it overheated.

Average summer temp is 20-30 Celsius
Average winter temp is -15 to - 30 Celsius
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Old 09-04-2019, 07:45 PM   #12
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According to your manual, that drive likes around -10 to 50C. You will also need 2" (50 mm) from each side, and 4" (100 mm) from the top and bottom as a minimum.
Your drive is about 235 mm wide x 320 mm high and 190 mm deep. So based on that, your panel needs to be a minimum of 335 mm (13 1/8") x 520 mm (20 1/2"). It's 7" deep, so I'm gonna shoot from the hip and say that a 20x20 box is too small..
There are thousands of drives that are mounted in enclosures installed outside. It can be done, and be problem free, if done correctly..

I am going to be getting dimensions tomorrow of the existing box, it is not a standard 20x20 JB it is quite deep from what i remember.
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:34 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by 2604Sparky View Post
I am going to be getting dimensions tomorrow of the existing box, it is not a standard 20x20 JB it is quite deep from what i remember.
I think it's gonna be tight, based on the manual, but once you get the exact dimensions it will help out.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:15 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by 2604Sparky View Post
Average summer temp is 20-30 Celsius
Average winter temp is -15 to - 30 Celsius

That's a small VFD so we could install a fan and exhaust vent on the enclosure to circulate air during the summer. If it was 50HP to 100HP we would install an air conditioner for those summers.



The coldest average temperature I've installed a VFD in is only -17ºc so I'm not entirely sure what we would do for -30ºc. We would probably install an intake vent with shutters, an exhaust fan with shutters, temperature controls on the fan, and a small heater to ensure the cabinet stays warm enough. The enclosure would be mounted under a roof on the skid to keep rain and sun off the enclosure.
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Old 09-06-2019, 12:09 AM   #15
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You're likely going to want to go with a bigger panel. If you're installing multiple electrical components and equipment inside an Enclosure, chances are good that you will need a special inspection on the equipment for CSA approval.
If you need a line or load reactor, there is additional room required for those components as well.

As the other's say you'll need to have a fan and exhaust slits cut into the panel, This means a temperature controller and multiple voltages now. Also you're going to want a panel heater to maintain 5 Degrees in your enclosure. You risk damaging the capacitors if you loose power to the drive in the cold weather without one.

Of course, you could always just mount the drive indoors if there is an option to do so. In this retrofit case, that wasn't an option.

Unfortunately don't have any pictures handy of the inside of this cabinet, but it was a 125HP drive with a breaker installed in the enclosure. We thought it was sized nicely, but there wasn't a heck of a lot of room in there.
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Old 09-06-2019, 12:43 AM   #16
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You're likely going to want to go with a bigger panel. If you're installing multiple electrical components and equipment inside an Enclosure, chances are good that you will need a special inspection on the equipment for CSA approval.
If you need a line or load reactor, there is additional room required for those components as well.

As the other's say you'll need to have a fan and exhaust slits cut into the panel, This means a temperature controller and multiple voltages now. Also you're going to want a panel heater to maintain 5 Degrees in your enclosure. You risk damaging the capacitors if you loose power to the drive in the cold weather without one.

Of course, you could always just mount the drive indoors if there is an option to do so. In this retrofit case, that wasn't an option.

Unfortunately don't have any pictures handy of the inside of this cabinet, but it was a 125HP drive with a breaker installed in the enclosure. We thought it was sized nicely, but there wasn't a heck of a lot of room in there.
I'm not sure how the heater will work with no power? I'm guessing you mean if the drive trips or shuts down, either a trip or process issue?
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Old 09-06-2019, 08:18 AM   #17
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Sorry, yes, I meant the control signal. If the drive is not operating, and generating its own heat.
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