Press controls? - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum > Electrical Trade Topics > PLCs, VFDs, Motors and Controls


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-19-2011, 08:34 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: CA. U.S.A.
Posts: 102
Rewards Points: 87
Default Press controls?

Anyone know a good website on press controls?
Sparkee is offline   Reply With Quote
Join Contractor Talk

Join the #1 Electrician Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

ElectricianTalk.com - Are you a Professional Electrical Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for electricians to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your specialty is you'll find that ElectricianTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!

Join ElectricianTalk.com - Click Here JOIN FOR FREE


Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ElectricianTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-19-2011, 08:41 AM   #2
evil bastard
 
mcclary's electrical's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: State of Euphoria
Posts: 15,771
Rewards Points: 746
Default

Too vague
mcclary's electrical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2011, 09:26 AM   #3
RIP 1959-2015
 
HARRY304E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Reporting from the east coast of Moonbatchusetts..
Posts: 39,624
Rewards Points: 1,344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclary's electrical View Post
Too vague
WOW! that was helpful.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
HARRY304E is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-19-2011, 09:26 AM   #4
RIP 1959-2015
 
HARRY304E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Reporting from the east coast of Moonbatchusetts..
Posts: 39,624
Rewards Points: 1,344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkee View Post
Anyone know a good website on press controls?
Try this.

http://www.toledointegratedsystems.c...rols/index.php


http://www.ciecocontrols.com/second_level.cfm?att=1


http://www.niroinc.com/pharma_system...ol_systems.asp


http://www.dynasys.org/Printing_press.htm


http://www.presscontrols.co.uk/
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by HARRY304E; 12-19-2011 at 09:30 AM.
HARRY304E is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to HARRY304E For This Useful Post:
Sparkee (12-19-2011)
Old 12-19-2011, 05:01 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: CA. U.S.A.
Posts: 102
Rewards Points: 87
Default

Sorry about being vague, I had to rush off to work. A client of mine has tasked us to rebuilt the electrical controls on some mechanical brake presses. As always OSHA is a good place to start but I was looking for a web site similar to this one but where the subject is presses and associated industrial controls. I have installed anti-tie down circuits, light curtains, safety guards along with trouble shooting presses but
I was just looking to talk to people in the same field.
Sparkee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2011, 08:21 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Northern Kentucky
Posts: 1,420
Rewards Points: 1,742
Default

I have worked on many different types of presses- steel, cardboard, paper and printing.

What type machine are you dealing with? Is it cyclic or flywheel? Electric only, or electro hydraulic? Individual parts or continuos cycle? Control- manual/relay or PLC? Stand alone or network?

Be glad to help if I can, but i would need some details to be helpful.
varmit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2011, 10:33 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: CA. U.S.A.
Posts: 102
Rewards Points: 87
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by varmit View Post
I have worked on many different types of presses- steel, cardboard, paper and printing.

What type machine are you dealing with? Is it cyclic or flywheel? Electric only, or electro hydraulic? Individual parts or continuos cycle? Control- manual/relay or PLC? Stand alone or network?

Be glad to help if I can, but i would need some details to be helpful.
It's a Precision brand press, flywheel, electro-mechanical, continuous cycle. It appears to have been "worked on" several times so all the prints they gave me don't match. We got it to work in inch and continous but we cannot get it to work in single stroke (it will only travel 180 degrees) and top stop will not work. It has a capacitor, resister, rheostat portion of the circuit that I have never seen before and I'm not sure of it's function but I think it's at the root of our problem. There is also a device that looks like a bridge rectifier but it only has 2 wires going to it. It uses cam switches to tell it where it is but I don't measure any voltage going to it. It's all relay logic and no PLC's or encoders.
Sparkee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2011, 01:00 PM   #8
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1,491
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkee View Post
It's a Precision brand press, flywheel, electro-mechanical, continuous cycle. It appears to have been "worked on" several times so all the prints they gave me don't match. We got it to work in inch and continous but we cannot get it to work in single stroke (it will only travel 180 degrees) and top stop will not work. It has a capacitor, resister, rheostat portion of the circuit that I have never seen before and I'm not sure of it's function but I think it's at the root of our problem. There is also a device that looks like a bridge rectifier but it only has 2 wires going to it. It uses cam switches to tell it where it is but I don't measure any voltage going to it. It's all relay logic and no PLC's or encoders.

I take it this is an electric over pneumatic type clutch?

Pictures?

Last edited by joethemechanic; 12-20-2011 at 01:03 PM.
joethemechanic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2011, 02:11 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: CA. U.S.A.
Posts: 102
Rewards Points: 87
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joethemechanic View Post
I take it this is an electric over pneumatic type clutch?

Pictures?
Yes. It's a duel solonoid Ross valve controlling the clutch. I'll get pictures next time I'am there. I'm sure that would help a lot.
Sparkee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2011, 11:05 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Northern Kentucky
Posts: 1,420
Rewards Points: 1,742
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkee View Post
It's a Precision brand press, flywheel, electro-mechanical, continuous cycle. It appears to have been "worked on" several times so all the prints they gave me don't match. We got it to work in inch and continous but we cannot get it to work in single stroke (it will only travel 180 degrees) and top stop will not work. It has a capacitor, resister, rheostat portion of the circuit that I have never seen before and I'm not sure of it's function but I think it's at the root of our problem. There is also a device that looks like a bridge rectifier but it only has 2 wires going to it. It uses cam switches to tell it where it is but I don't measure any voltage going to it. It's all relay logic and no PLC's or encoders.
These older presses are notorious for the OEMs dreaming up unique (odd ball) ways of doing things. You are way ahead if you have any documentation to start from. Most of the old junk, that I work on, has no documentation at all. Your best friend can be a long time operator of this machine. They may not know the controls, but they would know the sequence of operation and the machine function.

Since, obviously, I can't look at the machine, I will make some guesses and assumptions:

The stopping at 180 degrees is probably a cam switch or position switch or the relay controlled by these switches. These machines usually have a logic string that looks at the discharge of the machine before allowing the second 180 degrees of rotation. This is to help prevent jams.

The cap, resistor and pot are probably the adjustments for the clutch reaction time. The two wire "rectifier" is probably a snubber to make a coil drop out reliably.

I have seem many odd and unusual control voltages on these type machines.
In addition to the "normal" voltages, I have seem anything from 5 VDC to 60 VAC.

If you can get an accurate sequence of operation, and the owner will spend the money, It CAN be quicker and cheaper to do away with the old wiring and start over. An encoder feedback and a small PLC can be a cost effective way to retrofit a machine.

Good luck,
Harry
varmit is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to varmit For This Useful Post:
Sparkee (12-20-2011)
Old 12-20-2011, 11:48 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: CA. U.S.A.
Posts: 102
Rewards Points: 87
Default

I appreciate your reply. Always so much to learn! This work can be frustrating at times but it is never boring.
Sparkee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2011, 09:03 AM   #12
DGFVT
 
John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: VT
Posts: 2,514
Rewards Points: 172
Default

I did some punch press controls about 10 years ago. A word of caution on doing any alterations to the existing press controls. If something goes wrong you will be first in line when they start pointing fingers. This is something that I wll NOT do now ....troubleshoot yes , new install no.

Ross air control valves have to have 2 control circuits and a reset circuit in order for it to work the was it was designed to be used.

Best bet wold have somebody else supply the controls and maybe you install them.

Rockford Controls
__________________
R.E.D.
John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2011, 09:24 AM   #13
DGFVT
 
John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: VT
Posts: 2,514
Rewards Points: 172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by varmit View Post
If you can get an accurate sequence of operation, and the owner will spend the money, It CAN be quicker and cheaper to do away with the old wiring and start over. An encoder feedback and a small PLC can be a cost effective way to retrofit a machine.

Good luck,
Harry
I have done some in the past and would not recommend creating a new control system due to the highly sue happy society we now live in.

Ya got to know when to hold em and when to fold em and run for the door.
__________________
R.E.D.
John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2011, 05:52 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Northern Kentucky
Posts: 1,420
Rewards Points: 1,742
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John View Post
I have done some in the past and would not recommend creating a new control system due to the highly sue happy society we now live in.

Ya got to know when to hold em and when to fold em and run for the door.
Unfortunately, I will have to agree with you. I always try to to be liability conscious and sometimes it is better to walk away. Even if you improve the machine operation, and something goes wrong, that had nothing to do with your work, you can still be "under the bus". Of course, only repairing a machine will not absolve a person of liability either. Any entity can sue another over anything and your only defense will be proper procedures and documentation. There are no 100% safe business undertakings: Reasonable risk hopefully equals profit.
varmit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2011, 12:10 PM   #15
DGFVT
 
John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: VT
Posts: 2,514
Rewards Points: 172
Default

This issue of designing press controls not only falls within the NEC but also OSHA. I real big issue is section 1910.217(e)(2) of the OSHA regulations is;
Modification. It shall be the responsibility of any person modifying a power press to furnish instructions with the modification to establish new or changed guidelines for use and care of the power press so modified.
When doing this type of work you really need to know what you are doing and be current in your understanding of all the regulations pertaining to presses.

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...ARDS&p_id=9841

Here is a picture of a press control station for a 90 ton punch press that built the controls for.

And the keys are not supposed to be left in the key switches.

Attachment 10896
__________________
R.E.D.

Last edited by John; 10-22-2012 at 11:52 AM.
John is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to John For This Useful Post:
Sparkee (01-12-2012)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Installing a 200 ton press brake... oldschoolvdub Commercial Electrical Forum 8 03-25-2011 12:39 PM
DDC Controls dawgs Commercial Electrical Forum 0 04-27-2010 10:38 PM
Is a Press Release a Viable Marketing Technique? wdestar Business, Marketing, and Sales 3 01-10-2010 02:37 AM
DDC Controls miller_elex Structured Wiring 3 12-26-2009 02:07 PM
Anyone ever wire a Cadmach Rotary tablet press? captkirk General Electrical Discussion 12 11-20-2009 12:27 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PaintTalk.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com