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Old 06-24-2015, 11:39 PM   #1
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Default Old work fixture support box??

I do a lot of high end kitchens with pendants over islands and locating them exactly during the rough is next to impossible since sometimes they get moved to make walkways larger. I usually leave coils of wire in the ceiling and let the rockers cover it, then cut in old work ceiling boxes on the final. I haven't had any issues with inspectors until now, he's calling me out on the fact that they're not rated for a fixture. how is everyone else going about this? I'm always open to new ideas. Thx
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:42 PM   #2
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depends on the weight of the fixture. if the arent rated for a fixture what are they for?
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:47 PM   #3
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Straight from Carlon's website
What is the weight limit for your old work round box #B618R if you are
hanging a light fixture from the ceiling.
The B618R is a round old work outlet box and is not listed for fixture support in
the ceiling. Only approved ceiling boxes are allowed to support fixtures in the
ceiling. These boxes will be permitted to support a minimum weight of 50
pounds. The B618R can be used in the ceiling as a junction box. Do not hang a
fixture from it since it relies on the strength of the ceiling itself
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:47 PM   #4
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If you're talking about a blue winged box, they are not listed for fixture support.
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:50 PM   #5
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and those answered my question. satisfied?
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJSparky View Post
I do a lot of high end kitchens with pendants over islands and locating them exactly during the rough is next to impossible since sometimes they get moved to make walkways larger. I usually leave coils of wire in the ceiling and let the rockers cover it, then cut in old work ceiling boxes on the final. I haven't had any issues with inspectors until now, he's calling me out on the fact that they're not rated for a fixture. how is everyone else going about this? I'm always open to new ideas. Thx
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Raco-Retr...-936/203743171

This ^^^ is the kind of old work box suited for pendants.

If a beam is right in the way -- go with a classic pancake -- perhaps with some additional blocking.
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:57 PM   #7
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I'm only having this issue in 1 town, he told me if i was gonna old work them, i had to use a fan support box or a pancake right on the joist. Than I bet he bangs me for box fill with the pancake since they're daisy chained.
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telsa View Post
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Raco-Retr...-936/203743171

This ^^^ is the kind of old work box suited for pendants.

If a beam is right in the way -- go with a classic pancake -- perhaps with some additional blocking.
Thx, this is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for.
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Old 06-25-2015, 03:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJSparky View Post
I'm only having this issue in 1 town, he told me if i was gonna old work them, i had to use a fan support box or a pancake right on the joist. Than I bet he bangs me for box fill with the pancake since they're daisy chained.
There's a general tendency to forget that many listed fixtures actually have a cubic inch allowance for conductors -- THEMSELVES.

In this, they are very much like mud rings/ plaster rings -- which also have a cubic inch allowance.

You may have to poke around, but the typical pendant has as much wire space to work with as the pancake, itself. When this is true, daisy chaining 14-2 is not going to bust through the Code limit.
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:51 PM   #10
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Speaking of crappy blue boxes, can someone tell me what they have used this box for or if anyone has? A switch fed by a switch loop with 14/2 would still be a violation of code by exceeding the 8ci box fill? I've never seen one used.

http://t.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1-Ga...-UPC/100404057
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:26 PM   #11
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[QUOTE=Jay82304;2061202]Speaking of crappy blue boxes, can someone tell me what they have used this box for or if anyone has? A switch fed by a switch loop with 14/2 would still be a violation of code by exceeding the 8ci box fill? I've never seen one used.

I've seen a few usually used by Joe the handy man who knows no better, they usually get ripped out for the correct box.

On a different note to the OP watch the fixture canopies cubic capacity. Doesn't it have to be stamped inside somewhere? Just saying as the inspector sounds like a d#ck.
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJSparky View Post
I'm only having this issue in 1 town, he told me if i was gonna old work them, i had to use a fan support box or a pancake right on the joist. Than I bet he bangs me for box fill with the pancake since they're daisy chained.
I suggest you either hone your ceiling layout skills and eliminate the problem alltogether
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Old 06-25-2015, 10:08 PM   #13
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I suggest you either hone your ceiling layout skills and eliminate the problem alltogether

Ten four. Buy a laser bob and tell those ****ers you're laying out the ceiling with the plans you were given and if it changes there will be charges. If they're that high end they shouldn't mind paying you to get the pendants right on the nuts.


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Old 06-25-2015, 11:01 PM   #14
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What about the allied flange boxes

http://www.alliedmoulded.com/catalog...rt-boxes/9305/
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Old 06-25-2015, 11:17 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by ponyboy View Post

Ten four. Buy a laser bob and tell those ****ers you're laying out the ceiling with the plans you were given and if it changes there will be charges. If they're that high end they shouldn't mind paying you to get the pendants right on the nuts.

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I was just about to say this
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Old 06-25-2015, 11:20 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by ponyboy View Post
Ten four. Buy a laser bob and tell those ****ers you're laying out the ceiling with the plans you were given and if it changes there will be charges. If they're that high end they shouldn't mind paying you to get the pendants right on the nuts.


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Exactly. If they want it moved after the fact, it's a service call and they can do the patching.

Laser plumbs rock .
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Old 06-26-2015, 01:29 AM   #17
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How is that going in as old work?
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Old 06-26-2015, 05:15 PM   #18
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Boxes for ceiling fixtures have to be rated to support 50 pounds minimum. I don't think I've seen an old work box that has that rating. 314.27(A)(2)
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:24 PM   #19
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Speaking of crappy blue boxes, can someone tell me what they have used this box for or if anyone has? A switch fed by a switch loop with 14/2 would still be a violation of code by exceeding the 8ci box fill? I've never seen one used.

http://t.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1-Ga...-UPC/100404057
For LV use, and not too many of those.

You'd go that way if there was a filthy stud bay (retro re-hab) and you wanted to box-in for a door-bell/ intercom/ CAT 5e -- and shield the connection from falling junk.

It also can handle a 14-2 switch-leg:

In 2"
Out 2"
Yoke 2"
Ground 2"
Sum: 8"

No neutral, of course.

It's a size shunned by ECs, of course.
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:35 PM   #20
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Boxes for ceiling fixtures have to be rated to support 50 pounds minimum. I don't think I've seen an old work box that has that rating. 314.27(A)(2)

"Brace is designed for maximum support load of 75 lbs. ceiling fans or 110 lbs. light fixture on 16 in. joist span."


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Raco-Retr...-936/203743171

Strictly speaking, this IS an old work box designed for cutting in.

The technique presumes a hole-saw penetration -- and then the gadget is worked up and through the hole -- the arm, first -- and cranked into position between the lumber. This puppy can even reach out to 24" O.C. joists.

Its design causes it to sit -- just 'so' -- Then the box itself is anchored to the bracing bar -- which then puts the face of the box in the correct spot.

Before the box is shoved up, the Romex is stubbed into it, some slack is permitted in old work situations, of course.

&&&&&&

Many j-men could go years at a stretch without touching one of these puppies. They really are a one-trick pony.

Wall sconces use a different old work box entirely, as the brace is no help in a wall cavity.
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