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Old 12-28-2018, 09:46 PM   #21
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In my house I put the GFCI inside near the door, and run the outside receptacle as a load off it. Keeps the electronics dry, and the outside receptacle protected.

Of course it was my own house, so the added labour cost wasn't really a huge consideration for me. I'm not sure how I would do it if I were trying to make money on a job.
In Canada, if it is a single dwelling, the outside receptacles must be on a dedicated circuit not shared with receptacles inside.
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Old 12-29-2018, 08:31 AM   #22
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Between material and extra labor, I think you'd be better off just using a GFCI breaker in both situations (your house or a customer's).
Ya, could very well be. Personally I prefer this setup over the breaker GFCI.

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In Canada, if it is a single dwelling, the outside receptacles must be on a dedicated circuit not shared with receptacles inside.
Yes, the inspector tried to call that out, but I reminded him that this was just a panel change permit and by doing the GFCI/outdoor circuit this way I was making it safer than the non-GFCI outlet that was there before, but I said I could change it back if he wanted me to; he was happy enough to leave it my way!

You could put a blank GFCI inside I suppose, but at that point the breaker would definitely make more sense.
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Old 12-29-2018, 08:56 AM   #23
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In Canada, if it is a single dwelling, the outside receptacles must be on a dedicated circuit not shared with receptacles inside.
Ground floor only, right?
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Old 12-29-2018, 09:10 AM   #24
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I have never had to replace a GFCI receptacle that I installed under warranty. The ones that I did have to replace after many years, I charged a service call fee and made money. Even then, itís still very few.

As for the customer paying the extra expense for the breaker, I have to disagree with that. If you can charge them that extra $35 and they are willing to pay it, it still makes more sense for you to install the receptacle instead and pocket that extra $35 each as pure profit.
I generally agree with 99.5% of what you say about pricing and profit but I look at things much differently now than I used to.

I don't worry about material costs at all, don't really even give them much thought.

I just look at the job, figure what could happen/go wrong when doing it and what I want to pocket for the finished product and that is what I ask for.

Hasn't been an issue yet!
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Old 12-29-2018, 09:26 AM   #25
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I generally agree with 99.5% of what you say about pricing and profit but I look at things much differently now than I used to.

I don't worry about material costs at all, don't really even give them much thought.

I just look at the job, figure what could happen/go wrong when doing it and what I want to pocket for the finished product and that is what I ask for.

Hasn't been an issue yet!
Understandable. We all have different views and goals.

One of my goals is to maximize profits.

If I can sell a job installing a circuit with a GFCI outlet for (example) $300 or with a GFCI breaker for $335, then I could also sell the GFCI outlet for $335, and profit that extra $35.

Now if the customer actually knew the difference and was willing to pay more money for the GFCI breaker installation, then it's definitely a smart thing to do. But that doesn't happen often in electrical work like it does in the other traces.

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Old 12-29-2018, 10:04 AM   #26
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Understandable. We all have different views and goals.

One of my goals is to maximize profits.

If I can sell a job installing a circuit with a GFCI outlet for (example) $300 or with a GFCI breaker for $335, then I could also sell the GFCI outlet for $335, and profit that extra $35.

Now if the customer actually knew the difference and was willing to pay more money for the GFCI breaker installation, then it's definitely a smart thing to do. But that doesn't happen often in electrical work like it does in the other traces.
My goal would be $400 and install which ever was easiest and fastest.
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Old 12-29-2018, 10:57 AM   #27
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In Canada, if it is a single dwelling, the outside receptacles must be on a dedicated circuit not shared with receptacles inside. [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.electriciantalk.com/images/smilies/vs_no_no_no.gif[/IMG] [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.electriciantalk.com/images/smilies/wink.png[/IMG]
Ground floor only, right?
Right. Only the ones accessible from ground level. CEC 2015 26-726(a)
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:12 AM   #28
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My goal would be $400 and install which ever was easiest and fastest.
Exactly. Itís like saying I will charge for armoured cable and use Romex when I intended on using Romex anyway. Makes no sense. What makes sense is to increase the calculated price on a Romex job if that still gets you jobs and meets your hit rate.
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:21 AM   #29
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Exactly. Itís like saying I will charge for armoured cable and use Romex when I intended on using Romex anyway. Makes no sense. What makes sense is to increase the calculated price on a Romex job if that still gets you jobs and meets your hit rate.
You got it.

These days if a customer wants to buy their own materials I give them the list and say have at it. My price is labor only very often and I haven't had one I wanted turn me down yet.
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:21 AM   #30
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The price of TR's started coming down, and then BAM, self-testing were released at the new higher price
That is exactly why they went up...
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:30 AM   #31
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Pretty much a mute pointed thread since every freaking circuit in the world has to be afci/gfci protected. I can't see any reason to put a gfci rec in a new home.
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:49 AM   #32
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My goal would be $400 and install which ever was easiest and fastest.
You see, now we agree completely. I could get on board with easiest and fastest.

That's the reason why I spend 5 times as much on Lever Nuts vs. wirenuts, or 3 times as much on EMT offset connectors vs. regular connectors and having to use a bender.

But in this situation, I can install a GFCI receptacle just as quick and easy as a breaker. So using your $400 price that you would charge for the job, I would profit an extra $35 if I installed the outlet instead of the breaker.

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Old 12-29-2018, 02:32 PM   #33
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You see, now we agree completely. I could get on board with easiest and fastest.

That's the reason why I spend 5 times as much on Lever Nuts vs. wirenuts, or 3 times as much on EMT offset connectors vs. regular connectors and having to use a bender.

But in this situation, I can install a GFCI receptacle just as quick and easy as a breaker. So using your $400 price that you would charge for the job, I would profit an extra $35 if I installed the outlet instead of the breaker.
Provided you were buying materials. I'd rather hand the list to the homeowner for them to go get materials and let them feel involved and free me up to do just the labor end of the job itself.
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Old 12-30-2018, 09:39 AM   #34
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I'd rather hand the list to the homeowner for them to go get materials...

In my experience that has trouble written all over it.


I could give them a complete list, send them to my supplier where they already have the list filled and they'll still come back with wrong shirt.
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Old 12-30-2018, 10:16 AM   #35
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In my experience that has trouble written all over it.


I could give them a complete list, send them to my supplier where they already have the list filled and they'll still come back with wrong shirt.
Haven't really had that issue yet doing resi work.

Side benefit is when the HO says to take the left over materials when the job is done, only had one keep the stuff.
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