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Old 03-06-2019, 06:58 PM   #1
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Default What is considered living space?

Homeowner is enclosing a porch with block and glass windows but will not be under heat/air. Does he need receptacles for living space?

After the block was installed and passed, he calls for window inspection. This day the inspector tells him this will be considered living space and require receptacles to code.
Homeowner calls me, I explain we can add them but they will need to be surface mounted which he does not want.
2 existing GFCIs are present but it's far from the 6 foot rule.
I thought living space was under heat/air, no?
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Old 03-06-2019, 07:37 PM   #2
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This is probably under the jurisdiction of the building code. Find out what code they use for residential buildings and check with that for the definitions of what is considered living space.
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Old 03-06-2019, 08:16 PM   #3
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If it's a "sunroom" then 210.52(A) lumps it in like most other rooms. If it's a "balcony, deck, or porch" then it only requires one receptacle. I don't know what else you could call it.

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Habitable Space. Building space intended for continual human occupancy. Such space generally includes areas used for living, sleeping, dining and cooking, but does not generally include bathrooms, toilets, hallways, storage areas, closets, or utility rooms.
Although without heat / air it might not be suitable for "continual occupancy" year round you could say if it's going to be occupied continuously part of the year, it needs the receptacles.
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Old 03-06-2019, 08:35 PM   #4
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I'd be curious to know what bldg dept is issuing permits without doing plan review. It's a whole lot cheaper to correct it on paper than it is to correct it on the earth.

They need the receptacles.
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Old 03-06-2019, 08:42 PM   #5
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You're in FLORIDA. Heating and air is optional.

Any time I see a space that is totally enclosed and at all suitable for furniture -- I'd call it living space... 'cause you know folks will flop there... fur sure.

As for the homeowner: let him have fun with the building department.

You just quote'em and build'em.

If he can stump up for wet cut slots in his CBUs -- flush mounted receptacles can be done.

Coming up from below might be an option. I can't see the joint from my desk.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:37 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telsa View Post
You're in FLORIDA. Heating and air is optional.

Any time I see a space that is totally enclosed and at all suitable for furniture -- I'd call it living space... 'cause you know folks will flop there... fur sure.

As for the homeowner: let him have fun with the building department.

You just quote'em and build'em.

If he can stump up for wet cut slots in his CBUs -- flush mounted receptacles can be done.

Coming up from below might be an option. I can't see the joint from my desk.

Many locations have "3 season rooms"!
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telsa View Post
You're in FLORIDA. Heating and air is optional.

Any time I see a space that is totally enclosed and at all suitable for furniture -- I'd call it living space... 'cause you know folks will flop there... fur sure.

As for the homeowner: let him have fun with the building department.

You just quote'em and build'em.

If he can stump up for wet cut slots in his CBUs -- flush mounted receptacles can be done.

Coming up from below might be an option. I can't see the joint from my desk.
You ain't never lived there have you? During winter there are some periods when if you didn't have heat you will die. During summer if you don''t have ac you wish you would die.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:23 AM   #8
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OK Mac, I hesitate to believe you would die in a Florida winter without heat. We have homeless people who stay outside all winter in temps that can get to -30, -40 at night.


Tim.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeFL View Post
I'd be curious to know what bldg dept is issuing permits without doing plan review. It's a whole lot cheaper to correct it on paper than it is to correct it on the earth.

They need the receptacles.
I can get a permit online to rewire a 40k sq ft house without ever submitting a set of plans for review, no load calcs., no nothing.

When the inspector arrives though, you better have your stuff together or they'll rip you a new one.

I like it, I can have a permit in 10 minutes. No stupid useless building department holding up something for "You need one additional receptacle here, you'll have to resubmit the plans tomorrow".
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Old 03-07-2019, 06:54 PM   #10
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Thanks
Sounds like we'll have to add them he just would have preferred to not have surface mount had plans or an inspector caught it earlier
Cannot come from below since it's on a slab
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Old 03-07-2019, 07:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Switched View Post
I can get a permit online to rewire a 40k sq ft house without ever submitting a set of plans for review, no load calcs., no nothing.

When the inspector arrives though, you better have your stuff together or they'll rip you a new one.

I like it, I can have a permit in 10 minutes. No stupid useless building department holding up something for "You need one additional receptacle here, you'll have to resubmit the plans tomorrow".

Wow I wish! Our city requires drawings with wire and pipe size for every single electrical permit applied for and if any changes are made in the field I have to submit a revision and pay $ or it will fail. I'm talking small things too like add an additional receptacle or light, what a pain!
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Old 03-08-2019, 03:06 PM   #12
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OK Mac, I hesitate to believe you would die in a Florida winter without heat. We have homeless people who stay outside all winter in temps that can get to -30, -40 at night.


Tim.

In Hawaii we cry when the weather hits 60 and gotta wear long pants/sleeves.




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