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Old 05-10-2009, 09:58 PM   #41
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I doubt it, highly. Mortgage, two car loans, car insurance, credit cards, daughters college tuition, and a few ex wives. And don't forget taxes in the people's republic of new jersey.
I've got all that except for college tuition and a few ex-wives. I do have 1 ex wife, but I don't pay alimony. Just child support. Do you pay alimony?
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:07 PM   #42
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I make a good living with my job and never saw what the guys I work with need to do side work for. Their monthly expences can't be more than mine.

Finally, someone who makes a good argument for the union way.


Anyway, I was going to make a speech about how I believe side jobbing does more harm than good to certain market segments of the electrical trade, but then I realized that I don't care anymore.
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:10 PM   #43
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I've got all that except for college tuition and a few ex-wives. I do have 1 ex wife, but I don't pay alimony. Just child support. Do you pay alimony?
So how much was that bet for then........
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:15 PM   #44
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So how much was that bet for then........
Never made a bet. Also still doubt that his expenses add up to more than mine.
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:33 PM   #45
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Oh yeah I forgot to mention that I pay for my 9 year old daughter to attend a private school. While it may not be as much as college tuition it still isn't cheap.
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:35 PM   #46
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What is this? A pissing match to see who has the sorriest life or what?
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:39 PM   #47
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What is this? A pissing match to see who has the sorriest life or what?
Just defending my rights to do side work and not be made to feel like I'm stealing work away from legitimate contractors.
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:43 PM   #48
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Just defending my rights to do side work and not be made to feel like I'm stealing work away from legitimate contractors.

If you have contracting and licensing laws in your area, then you don't have a "right" to do side work without proper licensing, and if you get caught it could result in fines. At least here it does.
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:44 PM   #49
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If you have contracting and licensing laws in your area, then you don't have a "right" to do side work without proper licensing, and if you get caught it could result in fines. At least here it does.
I'm licensed.
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:49 PM   #50
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I'm licensed.
That may not tell the whole story.

A 'license' alone does not allow you to do contracting work, at least in my neck of the woods. You must have a Masters License, a Contractors License, carry general liability insurance, provide bonding, and be registered as a contractor.

All this may or may not apply in your state. If you're working as a contractor, you need to cross all your t's and dot all you're i's. If so, have at it. If not, you're working illegally.
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:49 PM   #51
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I'm licensed.

Ok, then we are talking apples and oranges. Do you have a contractors license if one is required?

When I think of "side work," I'm thinking of a journeyman or even an apprentice, operating without contractors licensing and insurance where required, doing electrical work for money.


If we are talking about Pennsylvania, where no license is required at all, I could drive down there with a roll of lamp cord and duct tape and I'm an electrical contractor. There really is no generic answer as to what constitutes side work from state to state.
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Old 05-10-2009, 10:58 PM   #52
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Ok, then we are talking apples and oranges. Do you have a contractors license if one is required?

When I think of "side work," I'm thinking of a journeyman or even an apprentice, operating without contractors licensing and insurance where required, doing electrical work for money.


If we are talking about Pennsylvania, where no license is required at all, I could drive down there with a roll of lamp cord and duct tape and I'm an electrical contractor. There really is no generic answer as to what constitutes side work from state to state.
I don't enter into contracts. I do piddly little jobs. Jobs that the homeowner could pull their own permit for and do the work themselves if they so desired.
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Old 05-10-2009, 11:00 PM   #53
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I don't enter into contracts. I do piddly little jobs. Jobs that the homeowner could pull their own permit for and do the work themselves if they so desired.

If you do x work for y amount of money, you're a contractor. Contracts do not have to be written down on paper. Verbal contracts are still contracts.... just harder to enforce.
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Old 05-10-2009, 11:01 PM   #54
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If you do x work for y amount of money, you're a contractor. Contracts do not have to be written down on paper. Verbal contracts are still contracts.... just harder to enforce.
I'm good to go.
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Old 05-11-2009, 04:25 AM   #55
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In this respect, let's define side work as work an employee contracts to do on their own as a self-employer outside of their regular employment. I do it, it's illegal, and I don't care. It's officially frowned upon and outright banned in the working agreement I am a party to, but unofficially unenforced, unenforcable for all practical purposes.

One sidejob a month pays for my Harley. One side job a month allowed me to pay off a 30 year mortgage in 15 years. My hottub came as the result of one side job.

In my area, a contractor must have a license, business insurance, liability, and pull permits. I recently bought another house and pulled a permit and under "contractor" the word "homeowner" was inserted. 3 weeks later I pulled another permit because the pool and outdoor electric needs re-doing but I don't know when I will finish it, and a 3rd permit for all the interior work I plan on doing. (A service must be filed under a completely separate permit anyway, unless the entire house is being done brand new.)

My permit numbers are 121001, 120004 and 121005.

Now, this is a township of over 200,000 residents and no less than 100 licensed electrical contractors. Simple math indicates that only 2 contractors picked up any job in the 3 weeks between my permit #1 and #2. When contractors start following every rule, every law and every code, so will I.

The REAL irony is that most contractors with employees NEVER "directly supervise" (That means their presense is required throughout the job) their unlicensed workers. And therefore, although legitimate licensed contracting affords the project some protections against hack or non NEC compliant or just plain stupid work, the reality is it's totally a smoke & mirrors effort to coverup the real reason licensing came to be - contractor income protection, not consumer protection.
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:13 AM   #56
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As if...

This is sorta off topic, construction related but not electrical. FOrgive the indescretion...

I had to buy a house, mainly because it doesn't make sense not to since my mortgage is paid off and without a mortgage and some writeo-offs , I'd get killed in taxes.

This house needs the entire exterior re-sided and re-soffit/fascia/trim. Also new doors, windows. Built in '75 as a spec hi-ranch house, builder's bare-bones special, original single-pane aluminum framed windows, luan exterior soffits, asbestos-slate siding on back & sides, poor cedar shake job of the front top 1/2, and brick on the front lower 1/2. All typical...

Nothing touched, painted, maintained, etc for years.

So I've been getting extimates. (I'm doing all the windows and doors myself) From conversing on these boards I realized many of us in construction have no idea how to price work. Well, electricians aren't alone in this. For top-of-the-line Certin-Teed composite Cedar Impressions for the entire house, and composite trim, all soffits and fascia, I have 4 bids from 4 legitimate contractors:

I figured in the neighborhood of 15-20 grand...

#1 is a one man band, caught him in the neighborhood working on a neighbor's house. Works alone, 12 year old truck. Wants less than 10 grand. This is a week & a half worth of labor an 7000.00 in material. TELLS me he has no overhead.

#2 is a GC who showed up in an H2 HumVee all tricked out. Wants 18 grand and his nails were manicured.

#3 is a guy who did 2 roof for me. Wants 14 grand. I know he hires locals and works with them.

#4 Is a popular well-advertized local home improvement company... an "estimator" is sent to measure, in a car with the company ad & logo on all 3 visable sides, looked like he measured to the 1/4 inch. (ALL of these types of houses are the same, and this company has probably done 1000 of them if not more.) Bid in my email tonight...

$31,000.00

Now, what to do?
Well, if you have a stomach for it you can get more estimates or just simply go for number 3. I have done hundreds of different houses and I am probably the only electrician who is doing everything from painting, carpentry to electrical. The reasons I got multiple licenses is that when you get to work you have more probability that you will get the job if you can do all. For example if you do electrical work and they have to call carpenter and painter after you done, because walls needs to be patched or siding and you have a lot of experience do it all then you are the winner, also you will save a lot of money when you doing your own house. Because you can do it yourself and you don't have to hassle with flakes and poor workmanships as well as overpricing and over budgeting your house project. Also, I am sure you must have friends in construction business. I worked with a few contractors I like and I am sure if I was doing something I can't do I will give to them.
I hope this helps! Good Luck!!
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:09 AM   #57
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Well, if you have a stomach for it you can get more estimates or just simply go for number 3. I have done hundreds of different houses and I am probably the only electrician who is doing everything from painting, carpentry to electrical. The reasons I got multiple licenses is that when you get to work you have more probability that you will get the job if you can do all. For example if you do electrical work and they have to call carpenter and painter after you done, because walls needs to be patched or siding and you have a lot of experience do it all then you are the winner, also you will save a lot of money when you doing your own house. Because you can do it yourself and you don't have to hassle with flakes and poor workmanships as well as overpricing and over budgeting your house project. Also, I am sure you must have friends in construction business. I worked with a few contractors I like and I am sure if I was doing something I can't do I will give to them.
I hope this helps! Good Luck!!
That's some good advice there Martin. I'm capable of doing a variety of things. I maintain / repair all my small engines, I can demo, hang sheetrock, rough & finish carpentry, sweat copper, drains (pvc, no hub...) install boilers, paint (who can't paint?) stain, ceramic, granite and porceliean tile... Though I wouldn't embark on any major sheetrocking job, room by room I'm fine with. And did I ever mention spackling and taping is my least favorite thing in the world to do? But sometimes, if you're redoing one room, or a closet, there isn't a taper in the world who will take the job.

The thing with composite siding is, just like a commercial or industrial electrician could not walk into a newly framed house and rope it in with the efficiency and zeal and speed that an experienced residential roper could, even a multi-talented mechanically inclined individual could never side an entire 2-story house as good as, or as quickly as someone who does it every day for a living. Just procuring some of their specialized tools and the capping, soffit fascia material, etc wouldn't be worth the time or effort, just to do something you might have occasion to do a couple of time in your lifetime, and maybe save a few bucks.

And despite whats going on in many electrical supply houses, it seems the plumber's and the siding suppliers do not sell to homeowners for anywhere near the prices those in their respective trades get. In short, the quote I got from #1 was only a little more than the estimate I got from the lumberyard for purchasing the siding materials myself...
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Old 08-26-2009, 08:44 PM   #58
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You guys just described me when I first started in the biz on my own over 11 years ago... offcourse I had insurance and license. Just that for me to break into the field I was giving rock bottom prices with minimal overhead and profit. The guy working solely out of his truck but licensed and insured should be ok if you can get references on his work. He might be NEW.
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Old 08-26-2009, 08:47 PM   #59
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Where did Lawnguylandsparky go we haven't heard from him in awhile?
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Old 08-26-2009, 08:53 PM   #60
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Where did Lawnguylandsparky go we haven't heard from him in awhile?
He is in a cocoon and will come back as a plumber
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