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Old 02-14-2020, 12:48 AM   #1
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Default Big transformer lift

Today was the biggest wall mount transformer I've ever done. 300 kva, 1750 lbs, plus probably 75 lbs for the rack supporting it. Mounted 11' 6" to the bottom above a parkade ramp.

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Old 02-14-2020, 12:55 AM   #2
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Those cables you saw above are currently feeding our site with 120/208v 400a. They will be refed in the main electrical room at 600v and will be used to feed the primary of this transformer, giving our site 120/208v 1200a. Next week I'll do the seismic aircraft cables off the front corners for seismic, install the disconnect and wire the load side to the primary, and run the secondary cables upstairs into our space ahead of the delivery of the CDP. After the CDP is installed, we will remove the cables feeding the CT cabinet in the main electrical room, replace them with cables we already have installed from a 600V breaker in the main switchgear, replace the CTs, and relocate those existing cables into the line side of the disconnect.

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Old 02-14-2020, 06:11 AM   #3
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Looking great so far. Keep us updated when it's done. What type/size of anchors/lags did you use to support the chain hoist ?
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Old 02-14-2020, 09:15 AM   #4
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Looking great so far. Keep us updated when it's done. What type/size of anchors/lags did you use to support the chain hoist ?
I used a 1/2" wedge anchor embedded about 4 - 5" inches into the concrete ceiling, with a rod coupling and a lifting eye. I also had two 1/2" wedge anchors drilled for the vertical rods to pick up the front corners of the rack once installed. During the lift, I attached lifting eyes to these anchors and hung a second chain hoist from them just as a secondary support. At one point we had to re rig the primary hoist and while doing that the secondary took all the weight, and in the process the anchors bent inwards about 45 degrees. So when the lift was complete and the transformer was bolted to the wall, we drilled new anchors alongside the first ones and hung the vertical rods from them.

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Old 02-14-2020, 09:51 AM   #5
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I used a 1/2" wedge anchor embedded about 4 - 5" inches into the concrete ceiling,

I do not trust those things at all. In retrospect, the failures I have seen have probably been due to poor installation (not getting all the dust out which isn’t a problem drilling up) but I transitioned about 5 years ago to Titan HD type for anything bigger than a 3/8” stud. It’s a bit of a PITA because they need a rattle gun to install them and for me that means a compressor but I have seen the electric ones work.


I digress,

Nice looking work!
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:14 PM   #6
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I am surprised the inspector allows this, violates the listing. UL did not test this transformer to operate with all that air underneath it.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:48 PM   #7
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i would have rent a telescopic forklift to do that, a lot more secure and faster install
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:29 PM   #8
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i would have rent a telescopic forklift to do that, a lot more secure and faster install
Not me,....... I cannot count how many times I strapped xfmr's to the scissor lift safety bars to hoist em up to those heights........... he had one there too but it looks like he chain hoisted the tran up.


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Old 02-14-2020, 11:06 PM   #9
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Not many lifts can handle 1750 lbs., but I've done the same with smaller units.
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Old 02-15-2020, 06:14 AM   #10
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I do not trust those things at all. In retrospect, the failures I have seen have probably been due to poor installation (not getting all the dust out which isn’t a problem drilling up) but I transitioned about 5 years ago to Titan HD type for anything bigger than a 3/8” stud. It’s a bit of a PITA because they need a rattle gun to install them and for me that means a compressor but I have seen the electric ones work.
I never trusted those sleeve anchors either, the engineers loved them, but there was a big recall lately so maybe we were right.

I don't really fully trust those Titans or similar either. (The ones that are like Tapcons only bolts.) The threads are small, and they have to be, you couldn't cut big threads into concrete with the bolt. If the bit wobbles a little too much while drilling, the hole will be tapered and oversized and with those little threads it could be trouble. I also avoid using an impact with Titans if it's something important. Honestly I have not had trouble installing them with a flex handle and socket. But as I have mentioned before I have the strength of ten men so your mileage may vary.

I feel like lag shields and anchors are super strong but engineers don't like them, I don't know why. They are forbidden in the building codes for some things which makes me thing they have had failures in the past, who knows. I have gooped them up with polyurethane glue before inserting the anchor and I really doubt you could get them out without dynamite.

But I want something that satisfies both my feelings and the engineers. Something like this, I'd use drop ins, they are rated for overhead applications. I'd also rather attach a piece of strut with four anchors and hang the chain hoist from the strut, this gives you some redundancy if one anchor isn't quite right. Probably three or four 1/2" drop ins would cover you with a 4x factor, I'd have to look it up. BTW, these would have to be spaced pretty far apart, you can't put drop ins close to each other.
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Old 02-15-2020, 07:26 AM   #11
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I'd also rather attach a piece of strut with four anchors and hang the chain hoist from the strut, this gives you some redundancy if one anchor isn't quite right. Probably three or four 1/2" drop ins would cover you with a 4x factor, I'd have to look it up. BTW, these would have to be spaced pretty far apart, you can't put drop ins close to each other.[/QUOTE]

If you would attach a Sr strut to the ceiling, how would you then lift from it then, maybe a couple strut 4 wheel trolleys? I would be concerned the strut would spread at bad time then watch the xformer crash to the floor.
On second thought, if you used the trolley system brackets, then it may do the job.
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Old 02-15-2020, 09:13 AM   #12
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Wood ladder....................... lol.............
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Old 02-15-2020, 12:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
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I never trusted those sleeve anchors either, the engineers loved them, but there was a big recall lately so maybe we were right.



I don't really fully trust those Titans or similar either. (The ones that are like Tapcons only bolts.) The threads are small, and they have to be, you couldn't cut big threads into concrete with the bolt. If the bit wobbles a little too much while drilling, the hole will be tapered and oversized and with those little threads it could be trouble. I also avoid using an impact with Titans if it's something important. Honestly I have not had trouble installing them with a flex handle and socket. But as I have mentioned before I have the strength of ten men so your mileage may vary.



I feel like lag shields and anchors are super strong but engineers don't like them, I don't know why. They are forbidden in the building codes for some things which makes me thing they have had failures in the past, who knows. I have gooped them up with polyurethane glue before inserting the anchor and I really doubt you could get them out without dynamite.



But I want something that satisfies both my feelings and the engineers. Something like this, I'd use drop ins, they are rated for overhead applications. I'd also rather attach a piece of strut with four anchors and hang the chain hoist from the strut, this gives you some redundancy if one anchor isn't quite right. Probably three or four 1/2" drop ins would cover you with a 4x factor, I'd have to look it up. BTW, these would have to be spaced pretty far apart, you can't put drop ins close to each other.
We are no longer allowed to use drop ins here, our seismic engineers won't allow it. I was actually planning on using epoxy on the ceiling anchors the same as I did for the wall, but the seismic guy said that's a no no. Apparently there's a concern that in a fire they would let go. He spec'd 1/2" wedgies embedded minimum 4", so that's what we did. The redundancy was provided by the second hoist.

I would not feel confident putting such a heavy thing on a telescoping material lift, especially not sideways on a ramp, even with a levelling platform. And putting it on the scissor lift is out of the question. Its lifting capacity is 500 lb total, and you approach that with three (small) guys and a few tools. I also don't mind that the chain hoist is slow, it gives you time to assess the situation and make sure everything is going as it should.

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Old 02-15-2020, 12:13 PM   #14
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Wood ladder....................... lol.............
I use what I am provided with. However, I actually prefer wood ladders.

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Old 02-16-2020, 07:18 AM   #15
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If you would attach a Sr strut to the ceiling, how would you then lift from it then, maybe a couple strut 4 wheel trolleys? I would be concerned the strut would spread at bad time then watch the xformer crash to the floor.

On second thought, if you used the trolley system brackets, then it may do the job.
Something like this job that's way outside the routine for me, I use the Unistrut brand which I can buy locally at Fastenal. I buy that brand because they have a catalog with all the engineering data.

https://www.unistrutohio.com/unistrut-catalog

I think the thick strut nuts are rated for pretty hefty loads but I would check that for sure. Looks like the 3/8" are rated for 2000 pounds so it's marginal with one, but you could double up.

Looks like the Unistrut trolleys are surprisingly lightweight, but maybe other brands are rated for more.
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Old 02-17-2020, 10:16 PM   #16
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What’s up with that ladder? Looks like it’s from the 60’s


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Old 02-17-2020, 11:55 PM   #17
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What’s up with that ladder? Looks like it’s from the 60’s


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It may very well be from the 60s........if you take care of stuff, it'll last........lol.
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Old 02-18-2020, 01:12 AM   #18
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The ladder is fine, it's not water logged, it's not splintered, it's not field repaired. Just a little faded is all.

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Old 02-18-2020, 08:37 AM   #19
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I never trusted those sleeve anchors either, the engineers loved them, but there was a big recall lately so maybe we were right.

I don't really fully trust those Titans or similar either. (The ones that are like Tapcons only bolts.) The threads are small, and they have to be, you couldn't cut big threads into concrete with the bolt. If the bit wobbles a little too much while drilling, the hole will be tapered and oversized and with those little threads it could be trouble. I also avoid using an impact with Titans if it's something important. Honestly I have not had trouble installing them with a flex handle and socket. But as I have mentioned before I have the strength of ten men so your mileage may vary.

I feel like lag shields and anchors are super strong but engineers don't like them, I don't know why. They are forbidden in the building codes for some things which makes me thing they have had failures in the past, who knows. I have gooped them up with polyurethane glue before inserting the anchor and I really doubt you could get them out without dynamite.

But I want something that satisfies both my feelings and the engineers. Something like this, I'd use drop ins, they are rated for overhead applications. I'd also rather attach a piece of strut with four anchors and hang the chain hoist from the strut, this gives you some redundancy if one anchor isn't quite right. Probably three or four 1/2" drop ins would cover you with a 4x factor, I'd have to look it up. BTW, these would have to be spaced pretty far apart, you can't put drop ins close to each other.
IME there is no freaking way to drive a 1/2” titan or bigger with anything less than 200ftlbs. My rattlegun is rated for 300 Ft/lbs and on occasion, it has trouble. Perhaps my bit is old and a little small but that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
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Old 02-18-2020, 02:35 PM   #20
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When I need to hoist things overhead, I'll ask Brad. Brad works for Black and Macdonald doing commercial duct work. Brad does lots of overhead lifting and knows what to use. Brad gives us lots of old lifting straps and stuff. They use them once and throw them out. They're great for logging and stuff around my dads farm.

Brad is a good guy.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.
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