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-   -   Concrete pole bases. Precast or pour in place?? (https://www.electriciantalk.com/f30/concrete-pole-bases-precast-pour-place-272290/)

Southeast Power 05-12-2019 08:25 AM

Concrete pole bases. Precast or pour in place??
 
We have 10 - 7' pole bases for an upcoming job. Our estimator put in a $750 allowance for them thinking we would tie steel and pour using sonotube. I prefer to buy them precast.

Is there a diminishing point somewhere considering the number of poles where pouring or precast has an advantage over the other??

macmikeman 05-12-2019 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southeast Power (Post 5195628)
We have 10 - 7' pole bases for an upcoming job. Our estimator put in a $750 allowance for them thinking we would tie steel and pour using sonotube. I prefer to buy them precast.

Is there a diminishing point somewhere considering the number of poles where pouring or precast has an advantage over the other??


This whole story is biased due to the fact that you are digging in sand , which means you can hire one apprentice to dig the whole job up in an afternoon, saving yourselves the tens of thousands that it costs the rest of the country to excavate that job, resulting in enough saved cash to be able to easily purchase the pre cast poles........:biggrin:

Southeast Power 05-12-2019 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macmikeman (Post 5195678)
This whole story is biased due to the fact that you are digging in sand , which means you can hire one apprentice to dig the whole job up in an afternoon, saving yourselves the tens of thousands that it costs the rest of the country to excavate that job, resulting in enough saved cash to be able to easily purchase the pre cast poles........:biggrin:

This site was de-mucked down to limestone and then filled in with 10' of compacted fill.
This one isn't a shoveling job. :sad:

kb1jb1 05-12-2019 11:41 PM

Depending on the soil type and conditions, round pole bases have to be deeper in the ground. The poles that I used required a minimum 24 inch round with six feet in the ground or 24 inch square 4 feet deep. Make the form a pyramid shape and you can down size a bit. 24 X 24 at the bottom and 18 X 18 at the top. Sono tube $100. vs a sheet of plywood $12.00.
Precast you need a crane or other means to lift them to set in place. Pouring them you can work at your own pace.

joebanana 05-13-2019 03:03 AM

Precast needs a uniform hole, level bottom, same depth, and a crane, and it might lean over time. Pour in place is easier to plumb up. What does the job scope say?

Southeast Power 05-13-2019 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joebanana (Post 5195830)
Precast needs a uniform hole, level bottom, same depth, and a crane, and it might lean over time. Pour in place is easier to plumb up. What does the job scope say?

The plans show a pole base and a bolt pattern with the steel requirements. I like having the luxury of pacing ourselves and pouring our own but, I might not have the time.

MikeFL 05-13-2019 08:49 AM

You can always sub it out to a concrete crew, preferably one you've worked with in the past.

Cow 05-13-2019 09:15 AM

We ALWAYS pour our own bases.

Now I'm working with a GC we haven't done business with before, and it sounds like all they've ever seen is precast used.

So we'll see, I'm not opposed to precast if the GC is willing to have the dirt sub unload and place them with our assistance.

sbrn33 05-13-2019 10:34 AM

$750 per pole base? We have good dirt here and no rock, I figure at least $1,500 and still feel like I lose my ass.
Cheapest is to sub it out to the concrete guy but then you have to watch them like a hawk or they will **** you.
10 I would do that a few more I may think about precast, especially if it is a spec type of job. How much is a precast?

Techy 05-13-2019 10:34 PM

I can hire the same guy with an auger truck to dig a hole for a pour in place or dig and set a precast base for the same price. I haven't done a bigger site job in a while, but I seem to remember somewhere between 15-20 being the break even point that precast begins taking over poured in place. Time also being a factor. Precast bases are always at minimum 4-6 weeks out, after you receive anchor bolts from supplier.

Obviously getting the GC to be responsible for the bases being the best way, subbing to a reliable concrete guy 2nd, pouring your own 3rd, then precast, unless the numbers make sense.

splatz 05-14-2019 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southeast Power (Post 5195870)
The plans show a pole base and a bolt pattern with the steel requirements. I like having the luxury of pacing ourselves and pouring our own but, I might not have the time.

In that respect it's like anything else, are you looking to fill more hours and do more work or are you already stretched?

As @sbrn33 said $750 sounds way low based on some of the other pricing you've mentioned. Digging the hole, the rebar, the form, the bolts ... but also, waiting for the concrete truck, the liability you assume, the chance of making an expensive mistake, I can't see $750.

Southeast Power 05-15-2019 07:44 PM

They put it off long enough that we are just going to hire a CW out of the hall and make this his baby for a couple of weeks.

canbug 05-16-2019 09:28 AM

Both, precast for streetlights and pour in place for our high mast lighting. The pour in place are generally 48" wide and up to 30' deep. I don't want a precast for that.


Tim.

Southeast Power 07-16-2019 08:26 PM

We ended up pouring them.
Every one of them came out nice.
The poles arrived, the guys put a couple of heads on.
All was going well until we noticed something didn’t look right.
It looks like a change order to me.

https://www.electriciantalk.com/memb...11838-oops.jpg

flyboy 07-16-2019 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southeast Power (Post 5216840)
We ended up pouring them.
Every one of them came out nice.
The poles arrived, the guys put a couple of heads on.
All was going well until we noticed something didn’t look right.
It looks like a change order to me.

https://www.electriciantalk.com/memb...11838-oops.jpg

The change order should augment the original $750 you got. $75 a pour sounded cheap to me.

emtnut 07-16-2019 08:35 PM

Adaptor plate ... charge large for the extra ... and yer done !

Southeast Power 07-16-2019 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyboy (Post 5216854)
The change order should augment the original $750 you got. $75 a pour sounded cheap to me.

Our line item was $7,500 for 10 bases. We paid $1,200 for the sonotube, $300 for the steel, $750 for the auger attachment, $1,200 for the concrete, the bad part. 100 man hours.

Now we will have to cut off the existing bolts, 40 of them, core drill out and install some fancy ass Hilti product and hardware.
We will have to patch over the cut off bolts so they don’t bleed rust.

We did hear a sister project in another state had the same problem.
The complication for us is the 150mph wind load requirement We have in Miami.

The first thing I thought was an adaptor plate. It will have to have the blessing of a PE.

460 Delta 07-16-2019 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southeast Power (Post 5216876)
Our line item was $7,500 for 10 bases. We paid $1,200 for the sonotube, $300 for the steel, $750 for the auger attachment, $1,200 for the concrete, the bad part. 100 man hours.

Now we will have to cut off the existing bolts, 40 of them, core drill out and install some fancy ass Hilti product and hardware.
We will have to patch over the cut off bolts so they don’t bleed rust.

We did hear a sister project in another state had the same problem.
The complication for us is the 150mph wind load requirement We have in Miami.

The first thing I thought was an adaptor plate. It will have to have the blessing of a PE.

Just curious, but I assume you used a 3500 psi no air mix? What does a yard of concrete run down there?

Southeast Power 07-16-2019 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 460 Delta (Post 5216892)
Just curious, but I assume you used a 3500 psi no air mix? What does a yard of concrete run down there?

They made us use an air mix.

The specs call for 4000 PSI, 150 PCF with 5-7% Air Entrainment. We will need a mix design specifically for this, you can use the mix number you have for Axtell #1579354 for reference.

This was almost impossible to find in our region.
All of the exterior pours require it. We were the first to call out that spec. We had to find a vendor that could provide documentation.

It was just under $1,700 for two six yard deliveries a week apart. They poured 5 at a time.

stiffneck 07-16-2019 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southeast Power (Post 5216876)
Our line item was $7,500 for 10 bases. We paid $1,200 for the sonotube, $300 for the steel, $750 for the auger attachment, $1,200 for the concrete, the bad part. 100 man hours.

Now we will have to cut off the existing bolts, 40 of them, core drill out and install some fancy ass Hilti product and hardware.
We will have to patch over the cut off bolts so they don’t bleed rust.

We did hear a sister project in another state had the same problem.
The complication for us is the 150mph wind load requirement We have in Miami.

The first thing I thought was an adaptor plate. It will have to have the blessing of a PE.

We've used the Hilti products but only exactly what you need. Shelf life of this stuff is minimal. We ended up throwing away what we had the next time we needed it.


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