Transformer & Generator Dilemma - Page 3 - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum > Electrical Trade Topics > Commercial Electrical Forum


Like Tree51Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-05-2019, 03:55 PM   #41
Beam Me Up Scotty
 
Kevin_Essiambre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,132
Rewards Points: 492
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by splatz View Post
That distance is another wrinkle, I missed that part. Of course I am just spitballing. But is there any real savings with 347V lighting? I didn't think that comes on as an advantage in a pole barn sized building, especially since LED drivers don't care much about voltage drop. And 240 single phase would be an advantage because it's automatically balanced.











Going off grid is not cheap!
I don't think I mentioned that distance as that's part of the future 5 year plan that won't happen this year nor next.

No real advantage to 347v lighting. But if he finds a good deal on 347 lighting, we'll have power for it.

He's not really trying to live off grid per say, but POCO wanted 180k to bring power in, so he has no choice. Only reason for the outhouse is because he hasn't put the septic system in yet for the house he will be building.

Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk
__________________
Vote Kevin for Moderator!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kevin_Essiambre is online now   Reply With Quote
Join Contractor Talk

Join the #1 Electrician Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

ElectricianTalk.com - Are you a Professional Electrical Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for electricians to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your specialty is you'll find that ElectricianTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!

Join ElectricianTalk.com - Click Here JOIN FOR FREE


Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ElectricianTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-05-2019, 04:10 PM   #42
Senior Member
 
Bird dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: South East US
Posts: 6,532
Rewards Points: 770
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin_Essiambre View Post
Problem here is that it's hard to Jerry rig something temporary that will meet code.

Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk
Make it permanent. It may sit there temporary for years.
__________________
EARTH FIRST! We'll strip-mine the other planets later.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Popcorn munching forum observer
"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting." Sun Tzu
Bird dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2019, 04:12 PM   #43
Beam Me Up Scotty
 
Kevin_Essiambre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,132
Rewards Points: 492
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bird dog View Post
Make it permanent. It may sit there temporary for years.
I got a feeling I'll be mounting it on a pallet. He wanted us to mount it on the generator's frame above the generator... we don't want to do that.

The generator isn't even in a waterproof building... Not since a tree went through the tarp.

Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk
__________________
Vote Kevin for Moderator!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kevin_Essiambre is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-05-2019, 04:20 PM   #44
Senior Member
 
Bird dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: South East US
Posts: 6,532
Rewards Points: 770
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin_Essiambre View Post
I got a feeling I'll be mounting it on a pallet. He wanted us to mount it on the generator's frame above the generator... we don't want to do that.

The generator isn't even in a waterproof building... Not since a tree went through the tarp.

Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk
If the genset doesn't have it's own enclosure, IMO it needs it's own building and yes in the dry. If the customer is going to 1/2 a$$ this, your boss should play hard ball.
__________________
EARTH FIRST! We'll strip-mine the other planets later.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Popcorn munching forum observer
"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting." Sun Tzu
Bird dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2019, 04:29 PM   #45
Beam Me Up Scotty
 
Kevin_Essiambre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,132
Rewards Points: 492
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bird dog View Post
If the genset doesn't have it's own enclosure, IMO it needs it's own building and yes in the dry. If the customer is going to 1/2 a$$ this, your boss should play hard ball.
The client is all over the place. But if he wants to pay to have it done twice, I don't mind. We told him that the generator needs to be in a real structure with proper airflow, but he doesn't seem to care.

My dad is building a real building for his generator right now. We know the importance of having it in a waterproof building with proper air flow.

My boss is playing hardball. That's why we are in no rush to go wire it. I don't care if there's snow on the ground by the time we go, we have a snowmobile.

Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk
telsa and Bird dog like this.
__________________
Vote Kevin for Moderator!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kevin_Essiambre is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2019, 05:49 PM   #46
Senior Member
 
Southeast Power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 18,316
Rewards Points: 9,320
Default

IMHO,
The dude should buy a PTO generator and a tractor.
He's just very, very clearly going in the wrong direction with the white elephant generator he bought.
Everything mentioned here is a rig and every situation using transformers is going to have losses associated with it, added costs for OPC and distribution equipment.
The dude should unload the generator and the transformer and buy what he needs.
Southeast Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2019, 05:53 PM   #47
Beam Me Up Scotty
 
Kevin_Essiambre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,132
Rewards Points: 492
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southeast Power View Post
IMHO,

The dude should buy a PTO generator and a tractor.

He's just very, very clearly going in the wrong direction with the white elephant generator he bought.

Everything mentioned here is a rig and every situation using transformers is going to have losses associated with it, added costs for OPC and distribution equipment.

The dude should unload the generator and the transformer and buy what he needs.
He has absolutely no use for a tractor though. He has a backhoe.

My boss tried to tell him what he needed but the client is set on wanting to use what be bought....

You should have heard his reaction when we told him that's the wrong transformer. He went in and on about driving 8 hours plus about $800 in fuel being wasted if he doesn't use it.

I don't get paid to argue... I get paid to make it work.

If I had been hired from the beginning on this job, it would have turned out differently.

Heck, if I had a use for a 3 phase 600 volt genny I would buy the right one and trade him. It's too late now to tell him to buy something else.

Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk
__________________
Vote Kevin for Moderator!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kevin_Essiambre is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2019, 05:56 PM   #48
Beam Me Up Scotty
 
Kevin_Essiambre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,132
Rewards Points: 492
Default

And FWIW, I'm just being paid to make what he has work, for what he needs.

Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk
splatz likes this.
__________________
Vote Kevin for Moderator!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kevin_Essiambre is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2019, 06:13 PM   #49
Senior Member
 
Bird dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: South East US
Posts: 6,532
Rewards Points: 770
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin_Essiambre View Post
And FWIW, I'm just being paid to make what he has work, for what he needs.

Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk
Understood. Just hate to see anyone get jerked around.
Kevin_Essiambre likes this.
__________________
EARTH FIRST! We'll strip-mine the other planets later.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Popcorn munching forum observer
"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting." Sun Tzu
Bird dog is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Bird dog For This Useful Post:
Kevin_Essiambre (10-05-2019)
Old 07-31-2020, 11:12 AM   #50
Beam Me Up Scotty
 
Kevin_Essiambre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,132
Rewards Points: 492
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bird dog View Post
Understood. Just hate to see anyone get jerked around.
Well we haven't been back since. How's that for not getting jerked around? Lol
Bird dog likes this.
__________________
Vote Kevin for Moderator!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kevin_Essiambre is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 07:29 PM   #51
CMP
Senior Member
 
CMP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Greater Detroit
Posts: 122
Rewards Points: 246
Default

Tell him if he likes traveling for used boat anchors, I have a nice 30KVA 600V Delta / 240V Delta I'd like to get rid of for cheap. Oh wait, they won't let him across the bridge. Bummer...
Kevin_Essiambre likes this.
CMP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 08:29 PM   #52
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: rural mn
Posts: 495
Rewards Points: 998
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulengr View Post
I’ve run into this before. You can usually adjust the generator regulator up so you are a little hot on the 120 output and a little low on the 230 side but enough to split the difference. Be careful with buck boost because you might be reading specs wrong. You only need kVA to cover the boost which is 230-208=22 V. So if you have 100 kVA off a generator the boost only needs 22/208 of that or 11 kVA, or something like that. I don’t have my transformer book handy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sq D and others have online calculators for buck-boost sizing.
tmessner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 08:52 PM   #53
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Western PA
Posts: 166
Rewards Points: 330
Default

I'm confused. Why not use a 600V 3 phase Primary to 120/240 3 phase secondary transformer ?
NoBot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 09:14 PM   #54
Beam Me Up Scotty
 
Kevin_Essiambre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,132
Rewards Points: 492
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoBot View Post
I'm confused. Why not use a 600V 3 phase Primary to 120/240 3 phase secondary transformer ?
Like a delta high leg? That option has been discussed here already.
__________________
Vote Kevin for Moderator!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kevin_Essiambre is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 09:17 PM   #55
Beam Me Up Scotty
 
Kevin_Essiambre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,132
Rewards Points: 492
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMP View Post
Tell him if he likes traveling for used boat anchors, I have a nice 30KVA 600V Delta / 240V Delta I'd like to get rid of for cheap. Oh wait, they won't let him across the bridge. Bummer...
Haha, well its funny because I was just talking with my dad. He said he'd trade him straight up our generator for his. Ours is about the same age, but is only 16kw single phase propane vs the clients 600 volt diesel behemoth. I wouldn't mind having a 600 volt generator around. I'd buy my dad a new 20kw propane generator and trade him LOL.
__________________
Vote Kevin for Moderator!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kevin_Essiambre is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 09:51 PM   #56
CMP
Senior Member
 
CMP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Greater Detroit
Posts: 122
Rewards Points: 246
Default

Well, if that won't work... Here's a work-a-round you might try selling him.
Good night time reading... attached.


I haven't tried this one myself, but it sounds just like the ticket your looking for...


More discussion on the attachment article here.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Transformer for 120-240V from 3-phase - Detailed A2.pdf (164.6 KB, 13 views)
Kevin_Essiambre likes this.
CMP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2020, 10:38 PM   #57
Beam Me Up Scotty
 
Kevin_Essiambre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,132
Rewards Points: 492
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMP View Post
Well, if that won't work... Here's a work-a-round you might try selling him.
Good night time reading... attached.


I haven't tried this one myself, but it sounds just like the ticket your looking for...


More discussion on the attachment article here.
Sounds like i should get some transformers to try this with. Too bad I don't have 3 phase power to try this out with, I'll have to go see him with a mock up of this (I'll probably get some 600-120/240 control transformers for the mockup to test it).
CMP likes this.
__________________
Vote Kevin for Moderator!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kevin_Essiambre is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
generator, transformer, woodshop

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PaintTalk.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com