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Old 03-11-2019, 04:40 PM   #61
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Here is what I think. #8 THHN is good for 50a, but #8 romex is only good for 40a. So I think Tesla put that in their specs so they donít have to differentiate.

Yea here is good for 50 amps at 75c
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:43 PM   #62
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I installed two leviton EVR-40's (40 amp chargers) recently and they spec'd a 50 amp circuit on #6 wire for each one.
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Old 03-11-2019, 05:19 PM   #63
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Here is what I think. #8 THHN is good for 50a, but #8 romex is only good for 40a. So I think Tesla put that in their specs so they donít have to differentiate.
I'm thinking that's the reason. Maybe for VD as well? I mean for all they care, they could say to run 500MCM to it if they wanted to, just because they can.
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Old 03-11-2019, 06:55 PM   #64
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Still dont know what I'm missing here. #8 is good for 50 amps at 75C. We use a 40 amp breaker for stoves but the receptacle s still fed with #8.

I've installed a few 14-50 plugs with #8 and they all passed inspection.
Yes, #8 is good for 50 amps under table 2, but what is the termination temperature of the receptacle and the breaker? If it's unmarked, you'll have to follow 4-006 2). If unmarked, it's 60 degree termination for equipment rated at not more than 100 amps, or marked for use with conductors #1 or smaller.

I've installed #2 alumimium 3 conductor cable to feed a sub-panel more than once, and landed it on a 100 amp breaker, didn't get a defect on either job, and the inspector was at both. Just because it passed doesn't mean that it's correct. I know better now that I'm older and farther along in my career, but back then I just did what i was told.

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Old 03-12-2019, 09:38 AM   #65
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Came across this bulletin.
https://s2.renewityrma.com/leg2/Fron...319_86-1-0.pdf


Has anyone here had success using the last portion of it? Demonstrated load instead? I would imagine acquiring this information from the individual hydro authorities may be time consuming.



Peak Demand Ampacity(from LDC)+ EV supply equipment, nameplate ampacity(typically 32A for Level 2) ≤ Serviceampacity
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:12 AM   #66
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Came across this bulletin.
https://s2.renewityrma.com/leg2/Fron...319_86-1-0.pdf


Has anyone here had success using the last portion of it? Demonstrated load instead? I would imagine acquiring this information from the individual hydro authorities may be time consuming.



Peak Demand Ampacity(from LDC)+ EV supply equipment, nameplate ampacity(typically 32A for Level 2) ≤ Serviceampacity

Interesting.

According to 8-106(10), demonstrated load can not be used for dwellings. When the 2015 OESC first came out, in the update they described the new demonstrated load terminology as something you could use for fast food restaurants and stuff like that. Like say you often wire Tim Hortons and for a new job, you could used the demonstrated load from the last job to quickly do a load calculation even though on paper it would require a larger service.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:14 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Kevin_Essiambre View Post
I'm thinking that's the reason. Maybe for VD as well? I mean for all they care, they could say to run 500MCM to it if they wanted to, just because they can.
Do you guys have a Canadian instruction manual or the same one that we use here?

If it's the same one, then they may upsize the wire just to be safe across borders.
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Old 03-12-2019, 01:35 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by eddy current View Post
Interesting.

According to 8-106(10), demonstrated load can not be used for dwellings. When the 2015 OESC first came out, in the update they described the new demonstrated load terminology as something you could use for fast food restaurants and stuff like that. Like say you often wire Tim Hortons and for a new job, you could used the demonstrated load from the last job to quickly do a load calculation even though on paper it would require a larger service.

I guess 8-106(9) is new to 2018?
9) For loads other than those calculated in accordance with Rules 8-200 and 8-202, feeder and service load calculations shall be permitted to be based on demonstrated loads, provided that such calculations are performed by a qualified person, as determined by the regulatory authority having jurisdiction.


I just recently tried to get this info from Hydro One on behalf of a client and they had no idea what I was talking about.
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Old 03-12-2019, 02:31 PM   #69
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The shedder comes in a 12 x 12 box you put beside the panel. The only thing going in the service area is the CTís which open up so you can install them around the mains without disconnection. Inspectors here allow it.

6-212(2) service equipment specifically designed for accommodating current monitoring devices shall be permitted
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Ive installed several of the tesla wall connectors. On half of them we did a 200 amp service upgrade. On the other half we installed a load shedder. DCC is a brand name of them.

Yes, the tesla chargers can be dialed down. But remember, even on the lowest setting, it's still twice as fast as the 120 volt charger that comes with the car. you're not talking about a tesla charger though.

If the client doesn't want a service upgrade tell them they need a load shedder. If they still argue it isn't worth your time IMO.

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Have you guys had any issues with ESA because you're working on the panels main compartment hot? Or are you getting a service disconnect done everytime you install one of these DCC's?
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Old 03-12-2019, 04:01 PM   #70
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Have you guys had any issues with ESA because you're working on the panels main compartment hot? Or are you getting a service disconnect done everytime you install one of these DCC's?
Haven't had an issue with ESA and installing the CT's while live. Ottawa hydro wants about 200 dollars for a meter pull, and 600 dollars for a disconnect reconnect. For that kind of money I'll go buy insulated gloves... or upgrade the service to a 200 amp service If I need a disconnect reconnect.

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Old 03-12-2019, 06:34 PM   #71
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I guess 8-106(9) is new to 2018?
9) For loads other than those calculated in accordance with Rules 8-200 and 8-202, feeder and service load calculations shall be permitted to be based on demonstrated loads, provided that such calculations are performed by a qualified person, as determined by the regulatory authority having jurisdiction.


I just recently tried to get this info from Hydro One on behalf of a client and they had no idea what I was talking about.
Not new, just moved. That was 8-106(10) and does not apply to dwellings.

It says for loads other than those calculated with 8-200 and 8-202 which are the dwelling unit load calculation codes.
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:36 PM   #72
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I'll be happy when they finally adopt the 2018 C.E.C. here in B.C. Until then in order to pull a permit for an E.V.Charger we have to complete a variance form on top of receiving an installation permit.B.C. Technical feels this process is necessary because of the lack of info in relation to E.V. charging in the 2015 code. Once the 2018 is adopted the variance will no longer be required.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:34 PM   #73
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Not new, just moved. That was 8-106(10) and does not apply to dwellings.

It says for loads other than those calculated with 8-200 and 8-202 which are the dwelling unit load calculation codes.

I don't see where is states 8-106(10) does not apply to dwelling units.


From the bulletin:


(4) Calculation of the minimum ampacity of service or feeder conductors for dwellings without EVEMS


Examples of calculations of the minimum ampacity of service or feeder conductors supplying single dwellings and two or more dwelling units that include EVSE(without EVEMS) is provided in Bulletin 8-3-*.


(a)EV supply equipment added to an existing single dwelling service

Questions have been asked if a service upgrade is required when EV supply equipment is added to the existing single dwelling service. In order to calculate the new service rating and determine if a service upgrade is required, a calculation is permitted to be done in accordance with Rule 8-106(9).Based on Rule 8-106(9) and Bulletin 4-13-*, it is permitted to use a detailed load (demonstrated load), as obtained from the local distribution company (LDC), indicting the existing peak demand over the last 12 months, plus the EV supply nameplate rating to calculate the new demand.

Rule 8-200(3) does not consider the total dwelling unit loads to be continuous, but EVSE loads shall be considered with a demand factor of 100%. The calculation should be based on the following formula:


Peak Demand Ampacity (from LDC) + EV supply equipment, nameplate ampacity (typically 32A for Level 2) ≤ Serviceampacity


If the existing peak demand over the last 12 months is not provided, the calculation of the new service shall be done in accordance with Rules 8-200, 8-202 and Bulletin 8-3-*.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:47 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by NDC View Post
I don't see where is states 8-106(10) does not apply to dwelling units.


From the bulletin:


(4) Calculation of the minimum ampacity of service or feeder conductors for dwellings without EVEMS


Examples of calculations of the minimum ampacity of service or feeder conductors supplying single dwellings and two or more dwelling units that include EVSE(without EVEMS) is provided in Bulletin 8-3-*.


(a)EV supply equipment added to an existing single dwelling service

Questions have been asked if a service upgrade is required when EV supply equipment is added to the existing single dwelling service. In order to calculate the new service rating and determine if a service upgrade is required, a calculation is permitted to be done in accordance with Rule 8-106(9).Based on Rule 8-106(9) and Bulletin 4-13-*, it is permitted to use a detailed load (demonstrated load), as obtained from the local distribution company (LDC), indicting the existing peak demand over the last 12 months, plus the EV supply nameplate rating to calculate the new demand.

Rule 8-200(3) does not consider the total dwelling unit loads to be continuous, but EVSE loads shall be considered with a demand factor of 100%. The calculation should be based on the following formula:


Peak Demand Ampacity (from LDC) + EV supply equipment, nameplate ampacity (typically 32A for Level 2) ≤ Serviceampacity


If the existing peak demand over the last 12 months is not provided, the calculation of the new service shall be done in accordance with Rules 8-200, 8-202 and Bulletin 8-3-*.
Not talking about the bulletin, I’m talking about the actual code. It says “for loads other than those calculated with 8-200 and 8-202.(dwelling unit calculations)

And when the 2015 Ontario code first came out with “demonstrated load” it was explained that it does not apply to dwelling units.

That’s why I find it interesting that ontario has now (May 2018) come out with this bulletin that says we can use the demonstrated load for EV chargers.
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:47 PM   #75
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Yes, the hard wired version will provide a current of up to 80 amps, but currently, the vehicles accept up to 48 amps (Model 3) and 40 or 32 amps for most of the other vehicles, making it pointless to get an 80 amp charger right now.

Where did you get this information from? It says here that the high amperage charger provides a current of 72 amps
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/...ctor_en_ca.pdf
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:15 PM   #76
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Do the load calc and show it to the customer.
Give them the option to upgrade OR to install a Load Miser /Shedder.
Check out the Tesla website for detailed instructions on thier chargers.
they have a selector switch inside that allows you to set the current draw from 32-80A FLA.
They also have a chart of KM/1hr of charge time for all models at all the different given charging amperages
Find out the model, how far it can go on a full charge, how many hours per evening it will be able to charge and you can calculate the rate of charge (and ampacity) required.
THEN you can do your load calc and determine if they need an upgrade or load miser.
It sounds complicated but its not.
Download the charts from tesla and keep them on your phone.
If its a basic house, you should be able to to a load calc from memory in about 5min OR go to http://www.codemath.com/cgi-bin/Run.pl?script=Cec8_200 for thier load calculator.
Based on 2012 CEC, but I'm pretty sure those rules haven't changed since then.
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Old 04-08-2019, 02:13 PM   #77
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Haven't had an issue with ESA and installing the CT's while live. Ottawa hydro wants about 200 dollars for a meter pull, and 600 dollars for a disconnect reconnect. For that kind of money I'll go buy insulated gloves... or upgrade the service to a 200 amp service If I need a disconnect reconnect.

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Do you run the ct wiring in individual conduits or both pairs in one conduit to the panels main compartment?
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Old 04-08-2019, 02:46 PM   #78
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What did I miss here?
Apparently a crappy client. Congrats! And when they try to leave a bad review, contact the agency in charge of the review and ask them for proof that you did work for this "reviewer". a few bad reviews also makes it look like you have more than just your family leaving you the 5 star reviews.

It's your company and your company standards that the customer failed to understand- not you.
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Old 04-08-2019, 03:45 PM   #79
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Do you run the ct wiring in individual conduits or both pairs in one conduit to the panels main compartment?
I thought I posted but I guess the app crashed...

Normally we will run both CT leads through a 1/2" flex using L17's (it's been awhile. I think they fit 1/2" flex) Then you don't need anything to make a hole as the mains compartment usually has 1/2" and 3/4" concentric KO's.


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Old 04-29-2019, 11:19 AM   #80
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Default Tesla requirements for 14-50/6-50 Outlets

Delete.
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Last edited by NDC; 04-29-2019 at 01:53 PM.
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