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Old 09-07-2016, 02:29 PM   #1
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Default 2-005(a) is it safe to say that...

this rule is completely void? Swapping from duplex to decora did not require a permit but now with the arc fault rule, 2-005(a)(vii) basically calls for a permit at all times?
In what situation can an electrical contractor swap out duplex to decora and NOT require a permit now?
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:11 PM   #2
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Default 2-005(a) is it safe to say that...

Is this a strandata or oesc rule cause it's not in the cec
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:27 PM   #3
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Pffft. I would never pull a permit to change out devices.
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Old 09-07-2016, 07:09 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by BlackHowling View Post
Is this a strandata or oesc rule cause it's not in the cec
Yeah oesc
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Old 09-07-2016, 07:14 PM   #5
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It's embarrassing that I still cannot grasp this new arc fault rule. I understand how I need to apply the new rule for new installations no problem, however when dealing with renovations and small service calls I'm lost as to when I have to apply it.
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Old 09-07-2016, 08:15 PM   #6
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I'm with 99; would never consider getting a permit to change a plug.
Wouldn't add an arc fault either.
Adding a plug or moving a plug is another story.
YMMV
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Old 09-07-2016, 08:24 PM   #7
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Yeah oesc
Just going by the chart you posted it seems clear what you don''t need an inspection for so I'd also figure no permit.
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Old 09-07-2016, 09:44 PM   #8
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Just going by the chart you posted it seems clear what you don''t need an inspection for so I'd also figure no permit.
I personally would not pull a permit to upgrade duplex to decora, however technically this work now does require a permit as of May 2016 it seems.
The circuit must be brought up to current code if it's modified. Just like kitchen counter receptacles had to be brought up to current code when we replaced duplex with decora we had to now gfi the splits.
Bringing this circuit to current 2016 oesc requires a panel modification and 2-005(a)(vii) states that replacing a breaker requires an inspection.
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Old 09-07-2016, 10:29 PM   #9
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I personally would not pull a permit to upgrade duplex to decora, however technically this work now does require a permit as of May 2016 it seems.
The circuit must be brought up to current code if it's modified. Just like kitchen counter receptacles had to be brought up to current code when we replaced duplex with decora we had to now gfi the splits.
Bringing this circuit to current 2016 oesc requires a panel modification and 2-005(a)(vii) states that replacing a breaker requires an inspection.
Things maybe different in the great white north but I've never seen a permit pulled to swap a breaker.
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Old 09-07-2016, 11:03 PM   #10
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Yeah oesc
Does that not say you don't need a permit to replace a receptacle?

Where does it say we have to arc fault the circuit if we replace a receptacle exactly?

Sorry, maybe I'm missing something?
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Old 09-07-2016, 11:08 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by NDC View Post
I personally would not pull a permit to upgrade duplex to decora, however technically this work now does require a permit as of May 2016 it seems.
The circuit must be brought up to current code if it's modified. Just like kitchen counter receptacles had to be brought up to current code when we replaced duplex with decora we had to now gfi the splits.
Bringing this circuit to current 2016 oesc requires a panel modification and 2-005(a)(vii) states that replacing a breaker requires an inspection.
Can you also show me where it says we have to gfi an existing circuit if we are just replacing the receptacle?

Moving an existing counter receptacle yes, we must follow new codes but just replacing an old or broken duplex receptacle?
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Old 09-07-2016, 11:17 PM   #12
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Does that not say you don't need a permit to replace a receptacle?

Where does it say we have to arc fault the circuit if we replace a receptacle exactly?

Sorry, maybe I'm missing something?
Yes it does say a permit is not required but anytime we modify a circuit we must bring the circuit up to code and new code requires arc faulting general use receptacles. Arc faulting general use receptaces requires a breaker change out so technically this requires a permit.
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Old 09-07-2016, 11:19 PM   #13
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It's telling me you can replace 120V receptacles but need a permit to replace a dryer receptacle. Dumb.
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Old 09-07-2016, 11:20 PM   #14
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Does that not say you don't need a permit to replace a receptacle?

Where does it say we have to arc fault the circuit if we replace a receptacle exactly?

Sorry, maybe I'm missing something?
Yeah that wasn't in ye old kings English for me either.
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Old 09-07-2016, 11:20 PM   #15
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Yes it does say a permit is not required but anytime we modify a circuit we must bring the circuit up to code and new code requires arc faulting general use receptacles. Arc faulting general use receptaces requires a breaker change out so technically this requires a permit.
It's a repair and, if anyone argues, you're repairing the colour from ivory to white.
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Old 09-07-2016, 11:22 PM   #16
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Can you also show me where it says we have to gfi an existing circuit if we are just replacing the receptacle?

Moving an existing counter receptacle yes, we must follow new codes but just replacing an old or broken duplex receptacle?
Splits that were installed within 1m of a sink that were not gfci originally are grandfathered. Soon as we swap the duplex split for decora style, we had to now gfci the circuit because it's within 1m of the sink, hence bringing it up to code.
Here's the bulletin about kitchen splits https://www.esasafe.com/assets/files...s/14-02-FL.pdf
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Old 09-07-2016, 11:22 PM   #17
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Yes it does say a permit is not required but anytime we modify a circuit we must bring the circuit up to code and new code requires arc faulting general use receptacles. Arc faulting general use receptaces requires a breaker change out so technically this requires a permit.
Replacing old or broken receptacles does not require upgrading the circuit.



Only adding or moving a receptacle (or doing any wiring) requires upgrades.
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Old 09-07-2016, 11:28 PM   #18
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Splits that were installed within 1m of a sink that were not gfci originally are grandfathered. Soon as we swap the duplex split for decora style, we had to now gfci the circuit because it's within 1m of the sink, hence bringing it up to code.
Here's the bulletin about kitchen splits https://www.esasafe.com/assets/files...s/14-02-FL.pdf
That is instructions on how to GFI an existing outlet if you want, not a requirement.


From the link:
Background
Often home owners and contractors wish to upgrade existing kitchen counter split receptacles to the Ground
Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI) type for the added safety value.
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Old 09-07-2016, 11:31 PM   #19
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It's a repair and, if anyone argues, you're repairing the colour from ivory to white.
I agree. I am just looking at this from a very technical point of view because technically speaking I'm technically lost when it comes to arc fault BS.

A friend of mine pulled his own permit to do some work in his master bedroom. He knocked down a wall and re worked some of the wiring. When the inspector showed up for the final, he walked past one of the bedrooms and noticed shiny new white decoras where they should have been ivory duplex, or used to be. I'm guessing the inspector saw the old style when he went there for the initial inspection and maybe took note of it.
Long story short he told my buddy that he had to arc fault the circuit because he modernized the receptacles.
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Old 09-07-2016, 11:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddy current View Post
That is instructions on how to GFI an existing outlet if you want, not a requirement.


From the link:
Background
Often home owners and contractors wish to upgrade existing kitchen counter split receptacles to the Ground
Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI) type for the added safety value.
Maybe you're right. I completed a general inspection deficiency list recently and on the list was a requirement to gfci the counter receptacle that was within 1m of the sink because the homeowner replaced the duplex receptacles with decoras.
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