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Old 03-15-2019, 10:07 AM   #21
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I am surprised more people haven't chimed in on this.
I got this one guys- he ( @Eleckid ) hasn't filled out his user profile as per the user agreement. He also needs to take grammar lessons in order to be taken seriously- unless it's just a new keyboard with a functioning "Enter/Return" key.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:58 AM   #22
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You need to listen when you are told not to test with your body. Back in the day, maybe two fingers but that is old school and you shouldn't even know about that.
Old wiring and old buildings can be life changing if you are not sure what you are doing, ASK.
I'm glad your still around but if you keep this up, you won't be for long.


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Old 03-15-2019, 11:46 AM   #23
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I would check to see if there is actually a connected bond , that bath gfci could of been hacked in of off non grounded cable, according to someone that put on a webinar for the technical safety bc about electrical fire risk in aging homes says if voltage tic lights up on a box it isnt grounded I have not tested this theory
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:58 PM   #24
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I would check to see if there is actually a connected bond , that bath gfci could of been hacked in of off non grounded cable, according to someone that put on a webinar for the technical safety bc about electrical fire risk in aging homes says if voltage tic lights up on a box it isnt grounded I have not tested this theory
That is true. Ungrounded circuits will set off your tic tracer within a foot of the box. You can not tell which wire is hot and which is the grounded conductor (neutral) with a tick tracer on ungrounded circuits or equipment.

Had an inspector show me this with drink machines. You could tell which machine was missing the ground prong on the whip by just touching the front of the machine with the tick tracer. The grounded machines, nothing, the ungrounded ones would make your tracer beep!
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:50 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canbug View Post
You need to listen when you are told not to test with your body. Back in the day, maybe two fingers but that is old school and you shouldn't even know about that.
Old wiring and old buildings can be life changing if you are not sure what you are doing, ASK.
I'm glad your still around but if you keep this up, you won't be for long.


Tim.
There are old electricians, and there are bold electricians, but there are no old, bold electricians.

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Old 03-15-2019, 05:55 PM   #26
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I think it's a good idea in general but for apprentices especially, a solenoid tester is better - simpler, safer, more straightforward, no second guessing.
The tool list doesn't have "non-contact" testers on it, it does have a wiggy though. So technically, a NCV is a no-no. Like I said, apprentices should be banned from using NCV's until they have more experience in the field, and understand the quirks those things have.

Wiggy's don't lie.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:08 PM   #27
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The tool list doesn't have "non-contact" testers on it, it does have a wiggy though. So technically, a NCV is a no-no. Like I said, apprentices should be banned from using NCV's until they have more experience in the field, and understand the quirks those things have.

Wiggy's don't lie.
Not all lists are the same. Ours does not allow apprentices to have a wiggy.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:14 PM   #28
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On a local facebook sell group here someone had a brand new Ideal wiggly for sale for 50.00 I was too poor to snatch it up. I have never owned one
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:17 PM   #29
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Not all lists are the same. Ours does not allow apprentices to have a wiggy.
Seriously? That's the most basic piece of test equipment. What are they supposed to check for hot with? I hope it doesn't have non-contact voltage testers on it.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:17 PM   #30
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On a local facebook sell group here someone had a brand new Ideal wiggly for sale for 50.00 I was too poor to snatch it up. I have never owned one
Had a SqD wiggy about 50 years ago, Once I got my ticket I only used a Simpson, and once digital came out , went to that.
Non-contact testers are no good for troubleshooting. And in my opinion Wiggy's are just barely a step above that. If you want to know what's going on, you need a multimeter.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:21 PM   #31
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Non-contact testers are no good for troubleshooting. And in my opinion Wiggy's are just barely a step above that. If you want to know what's going on, you need a multimeter.
I guess it depends what you are troubleshooting. a Wiggy is awesome for troubleshooting and what I use most of the time.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:32 PM   #32
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Seriously? That's the most basic piece of test equipment. What are they supposed to check for hot with? I hope it doesn't have non-contact voltage testers on it.
Actually I’d have to check but I think your right, it does say some thing about a tester. Maybe “voltage tester”?

No, non contact is not on there but for a while they were giving them out to first years when they first signed up. They had a deal with a supplier and they had the local’s logo printed on them.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:13 PM   #33
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That is true. Ungrounded circuits will set off your tic tracer within a foot of the box. You can not tell which wire is hot and which is the grounded conductor (neutral) with a tick tracer on ungrounded circuits or equipment.

Had an inspector show me this with drink machines. You could tell which machine was missing the ground prong on the whip by just touching the front of the machine with the tick tracer. The grounded machines, nothing, the ungrounded ones would make your tracer beep!
We've been using that trick on century homes to see if there is K&T for years now. I figured everyone knew that trick.
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:31 AM   #34
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As a Uk electrician that just passed the Red Seal exam, I was curious what a wiggy was.

Needless to say the uk internet brings up lots of pig related searches!!
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:35 AM   #35
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As a Uk electrician that just passed the Red Seal exam, I was curious what a wiggy was.

Needless to say the uk internet brings up lots of pig related searches!!
It’s Called a Solenoid tester

https://www.amazon.ca/IDEAL-IDI61076...59097617&psc=1
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Old 03-16-2019, 08:43 PM   #36
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Ncv tester are pretty sensitive to electromagnetic fields (at least the Klein one I'm using). It will go off on an ungrounded 2-wire with breaker off just from the induction the cable is picking up sometimes.

A multimeter with low impedance voltage mode is useful to screen out induction voltages from floating neutral.

I still find it weird that they allow apprentices on job sites before they get their full scholarship. In Quebec we do 1800 hours of school before we can set foot on a jobsite. Helps weed out the ones who aren't cut for it too.

Sometimes I take my boots off for residential work (wet boots on expensive flooring) but I slip in them before touching anything that could be live or hazardous for the feet. Sometimes I refuse to take my boots off, safety first.

Your boss must have had quite the face palm when you told him you check for continuity between a line and a nail into a wooden stud... We're you thinking that wood could be conductive at only 120v ?

At least you've learn more about electrical, the role of the bonding conductor and inductance. Pretty sure most insurance would deny a claim if you were to get shocked without wearing the proper safety equipment.

You should take the time to read the owners manual of your tester and multimeter, they all should cover these issues.
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:24 PM   #37
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Tick tracers have there place -- but you can't assume much from them.

Generally, they tend to give apprentices over confidence.

They don't know how much they don't know.
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Old 03-17-2019, 12:00 AM   #38
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DMM have the same problems.

False readings are too common.
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Old 03-17-2019, 08:08 AM   #39
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I get the Wiggy thing and the differences in maybe the areas we work in. Cat ratings and the meters, good ones, usually have the higher ratings? That said, I wouldn't be without mine and I'm not working on things that might put me in danger if using it.

He hasn't been back, and hopefully it isn't because he used his fingers one last time to test... If you are working with stuff like knob and tube, old BX or two wire romex, and don't have any reference to ground, I grab an extension cord and plug into something I know is correctly wired and it gives me all three.
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Old 03-17-2019, 08:28 AM   #40
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He hasn't been back, and hopefully it isn't because he used his fingers one last time to test... If you are working with stuff like knob and tube, old BX or two wire romex, and don't have any reference to ground, I grab an extension cord and plug into something I know is correctly wired and it gives me all three.
I do the same thing, I keep a 100' extension cord in the truck at all times and just run it right down to the panel, if there's a receptacle right at the panel, you can verify it's a good reference.
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