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Old 04-15-2015, 07:20 PM   #1
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Default $60 for the 2015 CEC

CSA price: $180

PS Knight's price: $60

http://www.restorecsa.com/news/artic...lectrical-code

https://psknight.com/cec

I'm going to order a copy to show my support.

I suspect the CSA won't let their monopoly go without some noise.
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Old 04-15-2015, 07:49 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RFguy View Post
CSA price: $180

PS Knight's price: $60

http://www.restorecsa.com/news/artic...lectrical-code

https://psknight.com/cec

I'm going to order a copy to show my support.

I suspect the CSA won't let their monopoly go without some noise.
Why does it say part one on the book?
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Old 04-15-2015, 08:08 PM   #3
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Why does it say part one on the book?
Part two is a place you really don't want to go to.

Its essentially a standards guideline for electrical manufacturers....its the electrical equipment standards.
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Old 04-15-2015, 09:29 PM   #4
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Wow, that's awesome. I'll definitely sign up for one of those.
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:29 AM   #5
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This is very good. I'll be buying.

PS Night has been battling CSA for a long time. Looks like they might win finally.
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Old 04-16-2015, 06:02 PM   #6
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Hmm, could I use this in school. Does the inside look like a standard code book?
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:07 PM   #7
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Hmm, could I use this in school. Does the inside look like a standard code book?
It is the standard code book. Word for word....page for page.....all the diagrams and tables, side notes, exceptions and all.
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:23 PM   #8
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Man, I don't see why on earth anyone would buy the other version. It's a shame more people don't know, and they're pursuing a lawsuit against PS Knight.
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Old 04-16-2015, 09:02 PM   #9
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Man, I don't see why on earth anyone would buy the other version.
Because the "other" version is a monopoly and there is no choice. I hope PS Knight prevails here, but I expect a few twists in the road before we can buy a copy of the CEC at a reasonable price.

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Old 04-16-2015, 09:12 PM   #10
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If Alberta stays fast and hard to their stance that the CEC, once enacted into provincial law, becomes public property and as such, is available to anybody and may be reproduced by anyone then I don't see exactly how CSA can stop this one.


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Alberta Queen’s Printer permits any person to reproduce Alberta’s statutes and regulations without seeking permission and without charge, provided due diligence is exercised to ensure the accuracy of the materials produced, and Crown copyright is acknowledged in the following format: © Alberta Queen’s Printer, 20__.“
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Old 04-17-2015, 10:35 AM   #11
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If Alberta stays fast and hard to their stance that the CEC, once enacted into provincial law, becomes public property and as such, is available to anybody and may be reproduced by anyone then I don't see exactly how CSA can stop this one.
Good point Rollie! But, I am not aware of anyone who does so. 😡

The SCC, ( Safety Code Council ), doesn't have the CEC code book available. CSA or otherwise. The ECA, ( Electrical Contractors Association ), sells the CSA code book that they get from CSA, at their prices.

Would be nice if someone like P.S. Knight took the initiative here in Alberta.

I think I will buy P.S. Knight's version, not because it's cheaper, but because it's a better book.

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Old 04-17-2015, 02:38 PM   #12
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I think I will buy P.S. Knight's version, not because it's cheaper, but because it's a better book.

Borgi
I ordered two of them. One for the office and one in the shop area, not just because of the much cheaper price but also to show my support for a company that has the backbone to stand up to anyone who holds a monopoly on anything and thinks that because they have held said monopoly for so long.......they are now untouchable.

I'm rooting for PS Knight in this one. I hope they win the litigation against CSA and end the monopoly.
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Old 04-17-2015, 03:29 PM   #13
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I'm so confused! Are we sol in Ontario or can we use this too? Last time I checked, we used the Ontario electrical code book.
I am buying the simplified multi province version anyway. It's always a good read. I actually find it enjoyable to read

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Old 04-17-2015, 04:51 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Rollie73 View Post
I ordered two of them. One for the office and one in the shop area, not just because of the much cheaper price but also to show my support for a company that has the backbone to stand up to anyone who holds a monopoly on anything and thinks that because they have held said monopoly for so long.......they are now untouchable.

I'm rooting for PS Knight in this one. I hope they win the litigation against CSA and end the monopoly.
Lets See CSA spends a fortune updating and printing their Number one STANDARD. it is not a code book yet.
The courts have said that CSA has and owns the copyright and the Law that makes it code is the only publicly owned document. That document is different in each province. So In Ontario ESA has CSA print the code with Ontario's admin rules. this becomes the Ontario Electrical code.
In BC the law is the Safety standards act ant it is free to print and access but it won't help you wire anything.
Mr PS knight is also very dead and this is his son profiteering on the good will PS knight and CSA tolerated his EC simplified.
Obviously Mr. Knight has escalated his deliberate copyright infringement and the property of CSA.
So I assume you hate the profit you think CSA realizes on each code book but what about the costs? PS knight only has printing costs and none of his time goes into creating it.
What great works can I take credit for of your doing?
I get we don't like the cost but defending intellectual theft is hardly going to pay for the development of the book.
I do tend to defend CSA as I work on that book inside the recognized process. I think Mr. Knight is stealing and I think he might pay CSA a huge fine or go broke fighting them.
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Old 04-17-2015, 05:09 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Mshea View Post
Lets See CSA spends a fortune updating and printing their Number one STANDARD. it is not a code book yet.
The courts have said that CSA has and owns the copyright and the Law that makes it code is the only publicly owned document. That document is different in each province. So In Ontario ESA has CSA print the code with Ontario's admin rules. this becomes the Ontario Electrical code.
In BC the law is the Safety standards act ant it is free to print and access but it won't help you wire anything.
Mr PS knight is also very dead and this is his son profiteering on the good will PS knight and CSA tolerated his EC simplified.
Obviously Mr. Knight has escalated his deliberate copyright infringement and the property of CSA.
So I assume you hate the profit you think CSA realizes on each code book but what about the costs? PS knight only has printing costs and none of his time goes into creating it.
What great works can I take credit for of your doing?
I get we don't like the cost but defending intellectual theft is hardly going to pay for the development of the book.
I do tend to defend CSA as I work on that book inside the recognized process. I think Mr. Knight is stealing and I think he might pay CSA a huge fine or go broke fighting them.
So what you're saying, at least here in BC, is that the law the adopts the code is a publicly owned document, whereas the code itself that is adopted, is protected by copyright infringement?
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Old 04-17-2015, 08:16 PM   #16
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Once that standards document is adapted into law.....and have no doubt, it does become a law, then not only the law that tells we must follow the standard is a public document, but the standard which we must follow MUST become a publicly owned document as well.

No government that has or will sit in Canada has the ability to tell us that we must follow a law that we have no right to view without paying an exorbitant amount of money.
Especially paying this exorbitant amount of money to a organization that bills itself as a NOT FOR PROFIT group.
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Old 04-17-2015, 08:25 PM   #17
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Take a quick look at the not for profit organization's annual report for the 2013-2014 period.


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Business Results
Revenues during this fiscal year totalled $290.6 million, an increase of 13.7% against the previous year and growth well above the industry average. This total includes satisfactory contributions from all areas of our global operations, including recent acquisitions, which achieved outstanding results, and a healthy contribution to our bottom line. We are pleased to report again that all regions, business units and corporate functions achieved their business objectives over the past year.

Throughout the year, we improved member services and satisfaction; made significant investments in various promising business sectors; began or completed development of seven new labs globally; enhanced employee engagement; and broadened our management team and capacity.
The report does cover lots of convenient spots to spend that 290.6 million dollars......

Quote:
At the same time, we will accelerate growth through acquisitions and new lab facilities in strategic markets such as Korea, Taiwan, China, India as well as Europe and North America.
So it would seem to me (IMHO anyway) that CSA not only wishes to continue its monopoly here in Canada but they want to start setting standards for the rest of the world as well.

I say screw 'em......I hope they lose.
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Old 04-17-2015, 09:11 PM   #18
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Lets See CSA spends a fortune updating and printing their Number one STANDARD. i
Well they certainly p!ss the money away for sure. There is no thumbs down button but you get it. They are just your typical corrupt group that clings to power and tries to justify their existence in my book.

The fortune they spend is in Banff or Jasper over ****tails.
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Old 04-18-2015, 01:08 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Mshea View Post
Lets See CSA spends a fortune updating and printing their Number one STANDARD. it is not a code book yet.
The courts have said that CSA has and owns the copyright and the Law that makes it code is the only publicly owned document. That document is different in each province. So In Ontario ESA has CSA print the code with Ontario's admin rules. this becomes the Ontario Electrical code.
In BC the law is the Safety standards act ant it is free to print and access but it won't help you wire anything.
Mr PS knight is also very dead and this is his son profiteering on the good will PS knight and CSA tolerated his EC simplified.
Obviously Mr. Knight has escalated his deliberate copyright infringement and the property of CSA.
So I assume you hate the profit you think CSA realizes on each code book but what about the costs? PS knight only has printing costs and none of his time goes into creating it.
What great works can I take credit for of your doing?
I get we don't like the cost but defending intellectual theft is hardly going to pay for the development of the book.
I do tend to defend CSA as I work on that book inside the recognized process. I think Mr. Knight is stealing and I think he might pay CSA a huge fine or go broke fighting them
.
I agree for the most part, but CSA doesn't allow anyone but those chosen, as you know, to take part in developing code. Yes, all sectors are represented, I get that, but not all stakeholders are asked to participate. Only the chosen!

So saying you helped developed the code has less significance if only the chosen are allowed to develop it.

I understand this stance is unpopular, but I challenge anyone to refute it.

Borgi
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Old 04-18-2015, 10:19 AM   #20
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One of the things that sticks out in my mind, is that if you purchase the code book in its original form, and then say you want a pdf version for your phone - you have to shell out another ~$180 for it. That doesn't sit right with me.

Oh, and another...their Esat C of Q study guide - great tool by the way. But there are wrong answers, not many, but enough. One spends $90-100 for it. You would think that they could identify those wrong answers and correct them. It's in pdf format, how hard is that?

/rant
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