Canadian limitations on Romex - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum > Electrical Trade Topics > Canadian Electrical Forum


Like Tree15Likes
  • 2 Post By Kevin_Essiambre
  • 1 Post By electricguy
  • 1 Post By Jmcstevenson
  • 2 Post By eddy current
  • 1 Post By PlugsAndLights
  • 4 Post By eddy current
  • 3 Post By eddy current
  • 1 Post By Byte
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-18-2017, 03:15 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 26
Rewards Points: 52
Default Canadian limitations on Romex

NEC says 60deg rating max for NMD90. I am wondering if there are any equivalent limitations under the CEC.

As long as the breaker and device is rated (and labeled) at 75deg it is my understanding that we can use the ampacity under the 75deg column in table 2.

of course if it is not labeled, 60 deg max as per 4-006(2)(a)

Specifically running 3c8 romex for a range outlet on a 50amp breaker. (short run volt drop not an issue)
RCSpades is offline   Reply With Quote
Join Contractor Talk

Join the #1 Electrician Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

ElectricianTalk.com - Are you a Professional Electrical Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for electricians to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your specialty is you'll find that ElectricianTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!

Join ElectricianTalk.com - Click Here JOIN FOR FREE


Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ElectricianTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-18-2017, 04:25 PM   #2
Beam Me Up Scotty
 
Kevin_Essiambre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 593
Rewards Points: 134
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCSpades View Post
NEC says 60deg rating max for NMD90. I am wondering if there are any equivalent limitations under the CEC.

As long as the breaker and device is rated (and labeled) at 75deg it is my understanding that we can use the ampacity under the 75deg column in table 2.

of course if it is not labeled, 60 deg max as per 4-006(2)(a)

Specifically running 3c8 romex for a range outlet on a 50amp breaker. (short run volt drop not an issue)
I've always been taught and told to use 3c #6 for a 50 amp breaker. Anything over 40 amps we use #6.

Just my 2 cents.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk
electricguy and Byte like this.
__________________
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy!"
Kevin_Essiambre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2017, 04:26 PM   #3
Safety Pin Member
 
PlugsAndLights's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 2,255
Rewards Points: 2,880
Default

If it's marked 75 your ok using the 75 column.
I don't have the link handy, but if you search "2015 bcsa el code change
training manual", you'll find excellent examples around p 38. It's pdf
and worth downloading.
P&L
__________________
Malignant narcissism is a psychological syndrome comprising an extreme mix of narcissism, antisocial personality disorder, aggression, and sadism.[1] Often grandiose, and always ready to raise hostility levels, the malignant narcissist undermines organizations in which they are involved, and dehumanizes the people with whom they associate.
PlugsAndLights is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-18-2017, 04:42 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Kamloops BC
Posts: 1,860
Rewards Points: 2,888
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlugsAndLights View Post
If it's marked 75 your ok using the 75 column.
I don't have the link handy, but if you search "2015 bcsa el code change
training manual", you'll find excellent examples around p 38. It's pdf
and worth downloading.
P&L
https://www.safetyauthority.ca/sites...al_v.3.5_0.pdf
PlugsAndLights likes this.
electricguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2017, 05:50 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
spinninwheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: BC
Posts: 554
Rewards Points: 1,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCSpades View Post
NEC says 60deg rating max for NMD90. I am wondering if there are any equivalent limitations under the CEC.

As long as the breaker and device is rated (and labeled) at 75deg it is my understanding that we can use the ampacity under the 75deg column in table 2.

of course if it is not labeled, 60 deg max as per 4-006(2)(a)

Specifically running 3c8 romex for a range outlet on a 50amp breaker. (short run volt drop not an issue)
How big is your range? Can't get by with a 40A breaker?
__________________
life is a wild adventure or nothing - helen keller
spinninwheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2017, 11:15 PM   #6
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 26
Rewards Points: 52
Default

yeah the safety authority sheet is a good one. thanks. I actually could get by with a 40A I think. Might do it just for the cost savings, but everything looks like the 75deg column is fine under the CEC.
RCSpades is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 03:52 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 210
Rewards Points: 66
Default

My understanding as per 4-006 was unless the receptacle and breaker are marked as rated for higher than 60 degrees you're required to use that column. Assuming it's smaller than #1 and sub 100A...

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
PlugsAndLights likes this.
Jmcstevenson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 09:50 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,129
Rewards Points: 7,520
Default

Check the temp rating on the receptacle. Most receptacles are NOT marked for termination temp so as per 4-006 we have to use the 60 degree column.

They increased the ampacities in the 60 degree column in 2015 because of this rule.
eddy current is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 02:28 PM   #9
Old Grumpy Bastard
 
MechanicalDVR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Old Dominion"
Posts: 57,794
Rewards Points: 17,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmcstevenson View Post
My understanding as per 4-006 was unless the receptacle and breaker are marked as rated for higher than 60 degrees you're required to use that column. Assuming it's smaller than #1 and sub 100A...

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
A chain is only as good as it's weakest link, makes no sense to over rate the wire.
__________________
I'm as Christian as possible in the times we live in.

Always just a stallion in a china shop
MechanicalDVR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 08:31 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Byte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Calgary
Posts: 467
Rewards Points: 934
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCSpades View Post
NEC says 60deg rating max for NMD90. I am wondering if there are any equivalent limitations under the CEC.

As long as the breaker and device is rated (and labeled) at 75deg it is my understanding that we can use the ampacity under the 75deg column in table 2.

of course if it is not labeled, 60 deg max as per 4-006(2)(a)

Specifically running 3c8 romex for a range outlet on a 50amp breaker. (short run volt drop not an issue)
Isn't NMD90 rated at 90C? Thought that is what the 90 in NMD90 stood for?
Byte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 08:45 AM   #11
Safety Pin Member
 
PlugsAndLights's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 2,255
Rewards Points: 2,880
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Byte View Post
Isn't NMD90 rated at 90C? Thought that is what the 90 in NMD90 stood for?
Yes, but the new rules focus on the fact that the equipment the wire
attaches too must have an equal or higher rating, otherwise the lowest
rating must be used when it comes to the table temp column. Bit of
a simplification, but that's the gist.
See the link given by @electricguy for details.
P&L
spinninwheels likes this.
__________________
Malignant narcissism is a psychological syndrome comprising an extreme mix of narcissism, antisocial personality disorder, aggression, and sadism.[1] Often grandiose, and always ready to raise hostility levels, the malignant narcissist undermines organizations in which they are involved, and dehumanizes the people with whom they associate.
PlugsAndLights is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 09:57 AM   #12
Safety Pin Member
 
PlugsAndLights's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 2,255
Rewards Points: 2,880
Default

My receptacles are an in store brand called Vista.
14-30R's, 14-50R's and 6-30R's are all marked AL-CU 75degC.
P&L
__________________
Malignant narcissism is a psychological syndrome comprising an extreme mix of narcissism, antisocial personality disorder, aggression, and sadism.[1] Often grandiose, and always ready to raise hostility levels, the malignant narcissist undermines organizations in which they are involved, and dehumanizes the people with whom they associate.
PlugsAndLights is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 10:21 AM   #13
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 11,885
Rewards Points: 1,360
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Byte View Post
Isn't NMD90 rated at 90C? Thought that is what the 90 in NMD90 stood for?
Yes. As far as the NEC goes, the 90 degree rating can be used for derating purposes, but the ampacity has to be selected from the 60 degree column.
RePhase277 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RePhase277 For This Useful Post:
Byte (03-22-2017)
Old 03-22-2017, 01:36 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,129
Rewards Points: 7,520
Default

Just to make it a little more confusing, 4-006 only applies to the first 1.2 meters of wire connected to breaker, fuse or equipment. Wire ran from j-box to j-box can be rated at it's rated temp. 4-006(4)
eddy current is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to eddy current For This Useful Post:
Byte (03-22-2017)
Old 03-22-2017, 02:22 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,129
Rewards Points: 7,520
Default

They are asking many questions on this code in the new 2015 C of Q test. Some questions say "connected to a breaker" but don't specify temp, some questions say "Connected to equip rated at 75 degrees, and some questions say "wire ran from j-box to j-box".
eddy current is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 11:58 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Byte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Calgary
Posts: 467
Rewards Points: 934
Default

In some ways I am happy to be retired...not just tired
electricguy likes this.
Byte is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Romex in Channel : Wood Cabinet onilozay General Electrical Discussion 11 12-28-2016 04:29 AM
Romex in conduit Incubus311 General Electrical Discussion 38 12-27-2016 06:16 PM
Romex in PVC ben franklin General Electrical Discussion 135 07-31-2016 08:59 PM
Found: The Elusive Marked Conductor Romex Jerome208 Residential Electrical Forum 8 01-10-2016 08:27 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PaintTalk.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com