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Old 05-29-2019, 06:18 PM   #1
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Default Car charger install near panel

My boss sent me to do a charger install and the charger was mounted directly beside the panel in the garage. 60 amp tesla charger with 48 amp charging rate. Nice easy install.

I told my boss that a separate disconnect is required and the panel cant be used as a service disconnect even though is so close. He said I don't know what I'm talking about so I installed it directly to the panel no disco.


FYI the panel has a door but no means of locking it. it is literally right beside the charger though so I think the inspector should be ok with it.
Is this going to fail ESA?
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Old 05-29-2019, 06:26 PM   #2
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86-304 disagrees with you .. .Oh, and the guy who signs your cheque does too
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Old 05-29-2019, 06:51 PM   #3
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86-304 disagrees with you .. .Oh, and the guy who signs your cheque does too
My boss says I don't need a disconnect though so thats the way I installed it.
86-304 says it needs to be lockable.
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Old 05-29-2019, 07:02 PM   #4
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My boss says I don't need a disconnect though so thats the way I installed it.
86-304 says it needs to be lockable.
Sorry bud, I misread your OP. I thought the boss wanted the disco, and you didn't install it.

Yes, 60A charger needs a lockable disconnect.
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Old 05-29-2019, 09:52 PM   #5
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Sorry bud, I misread your OP. I thought the boss wanted the disco, and you didn't install it.

Yes, 60A charger needs a lockable disconnect.
Even if the breaker in the panel is in sight and within reach? What about a breaker lock?
I was going to side with the boss until you made your post. But I don't know Canadian code.
Seems silly, but so does much of the NEC.
Thanks Wayne.
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Old 05-29-2019, 09:57 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by emtnut View Post
Sorry bud, I misread your OP. I thought the boss wanted the disco, and you didn't install it.

Yes, 60A charger needs a lockable disconnect.
If I read it correct that if you are over 60 amp that need a disconnect switch that is correct ?
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Old 05-29-2019, 10:48 PM   #7
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86-304 Disconnecting means
1) A separate disconnecting means shall be provided for each installation of electric vehicle supply equipment rated at 60 A or more, or more than 150 volts-to-ground.
2) The disconnecting means required in Subrule 1) shall be
a) on the supply side of the point of connection of the electric vehicle supply equipment;
b) located within sight of and accessible to the electric vehicle supply equipment; and
c) capable of being locked in the open position.
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Old 05-30-2019, 01:28 AM   #8
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Basically it's up for interpretation of your AHJ. If you have a lock and lockable breaker (or attachment) that is with the thing, and it's a dedicated breaker IMO it meets code.

That said, there's been quite a few instances i've been told of that the panelboard isn't allowed to be used even if within sight of the EVSE. I'm not aware of a single ruling that spells out that either way is 'correct'.
I'd do what your boss says and odds are you're likely ok, but when in doubt ask your AHJ.

If anyone knows a more formal answer, i'd also be interested.
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Old 06-01-2019, 12:54 PM   #9
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Even if the breaker in the panel is in sight and within reach? What about a breaker lock?
I was going to side with the boss until you made your post. But I don't know Canadian code.
Seems silly, but so does much of the NEC.
Thanks Wayne.
I agree it's silly. Many inspectors may let the breaker with lock pass.

The code that Incognito posted says 'separate'. And unlike our code section with motors, they don't specify that a MCCB can be a disconnect, and there are no line-of-site provisions.

Personally, I see it as safe even without the lock if it is within sight.
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Old 06-01-2019, 02:19 PM   #10
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I agree it's silly. Many inspectors may let the breaker with lock pass.

The code that Incognito posted says 'separate'. And unlike our code section with motors, they don't specify that a MCCB can be a disconnect, and there are no line-of-site provisions.

Personally, I see it as safe even without the lock if it is within sight.
Yup.

Why does the car charger need a special lockable disconnect? What about every other electrical device and junction in the house? People get killed by those far more often than when working on a car charger. And what does the ampacity of the charger have to do with it? I don't need a lockable disconnect to work in a 100A subpanel (which I do all the time) but I need one before a 60A charger?
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Old 06-01-2019, 02:31 PM   #11
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Yup.

Why does the car charger need a special lockable disconnect? What about every other electrical device and junction in the house? People get killed by those far more often than when working on a car charger. And what does the ampacity of the charger have to do with it? I don't need a lockable disconnect to work in a 100A subpanel (which I do all the time) but I need one before a 60A charger?
Needs a disconnect because at 60A and up, most likely it's not 'plugged in'.

As far as lockable AND within sight, I guess they are trying to protect Joe Blow from hurting himself when trying to d!ck with the charger settings (or more likely trying to CYA)
Oh, and you wouldn't want Joe homeowner turning off the wrong breaker now wouldja

Maybe we should just AFCI and GFCI the thing
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Old 06-01-2019, 06:01 PM   #12
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The nec doesn't require a disconnect for a car charger unless it is more than 60 amps. I too think that the CEC requiring a lockable disconnect when the charger is next to the panel seems odd.
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:56 AM   #13
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What about adding a lock hasp on the breaker or panel door?
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:23 PM   #14
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The best part of this is that there is in fact a number of times people have been killed while DRIVING electric cars. I don't know of a single incident of the same for people servicing a car charger. Which industry do you think has the dough to pass around the most? I hate the code so much now I am going to remove all the AFCI breakers out of all the houses I recently wired just to teach the stupid NEC a good lesson. They need reigning in. Peter D. is spot on when he rant's about intrusion from government.
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Old 09-11-2019, 01:52 AM   #15
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Following from the code reference above, the 40 Amp/32 Amp charge point charger I plan to install in my new place (old one I installed in my old house passed ESA with no disconnect) shouldn't need one as it is below 60 Amps, correct? (Both will be/are hardwired).

What gives me pause is the catch all for all else greater than 120v from ground... Which afaik would then include any of the hardwired L2 car chargers that I am familiar with. (Charge point, Leviton, Tesla, Bosch, etc).

In both cases the panel is located in the basement, the charger is mounted to an exterior masonry faced wall.

Thanks!
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:48 AM   #16
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What gives me pause is the catch all for all else greater than 120v from ground... Which afaik would then include any of the hardwired L2 car chargers that I am familiar with. (Charge point, Leviton, Tesla, Bosch, etc).


Thanks!
It’s voltage TO GROUND.

A 240 volt circuit is not more than 150 volts to ground
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:27 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Darkskypoet View Post
Following from the code reference above, the 40 Amp/32 Amp charge point charger I plan to install in my new place (old one I installed in my old house passed ESA with no disconnect) shouldn't need one as it is below 60 Amps, correct? (Both will be/are hardwired).

What gives me pause is the catch all for all else greater than 120v from ground... Which afaik would then include any of the hardwired L2 car chargers that I am familiar with. (Charge point, Leviton, Tesla, Bosch, etc).

In both cases the panel is located in the basement, the charger is mounted to an exterior masonry faced wall.

Thanks!

Are you a homeowner or professional electrician?
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Old 09-11-2019, 11:11 AM   #18
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That's what I had thought. That's the catch-all for the much higher power chargers. Misread. Apologies. And to answer the second answering post, homeowner, which after reviewing the who should be here. Means I need to see myself to the other forum. Thanks again though.
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