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Old 04-04-2019, 11:34 AM   #1
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Default ENT Conduit

Hi Everyone.

We're pricing a job, and need to run a conduit for future equipment (a coffee roaster) in a wood construction building. We wanted to use PVC for the ease of installation but due to the building being insulated we cannot use PVC. So we were going to run EMT, which is much more difficult, Then, we thought of ENT/coreline/smurf tube.

We checked the codebook and there's nothing saying that you can't use ENT in thermal insulation. Is this correct? I thought that ENT is PVC just like PVC rigid conduit.

It's for a high end custom home, so it would be preferable if we could avoid having to run surface conduit after the fact, and they're not sure what the machine is going to draw because they haven't picked a machine yet.

Also, does anyone know why we're not permitted to run rigid PVC in thermal insulation? I'm curious.

Tl;Dr: Can we run ENT in thermal insulation?
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:10 PM   #2
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The rules on ENT are very brief. Nothing says you can’t do it but an inspector might get pi$$y. FWIW, the rule for rigid PVC is “enclosed” in thermal insulation. I have run a 2 X 4 beside it in attics to get around the rule.
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:16 PM   #3
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In USA so it's bound to be different. But here anyway ENT has a yellow sticker attached on the coils that says it cannot be used in ambient temperatures exceeding a set amount, been a long time since I looked at it- maybe 120 deg F perhaps? Something around that.

So ,,,, Inspectors who are Akamai will call that out if you run it thru attic insulation , cause the attics here will definitely get a bit hotter than that in August and September. Actually , most of the inspectors won't say boo, but if you get the wrong one, you will be removing it. Why chance it?
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Old 04-04-2019, 03:31 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by macmikeman View Post
In USA so it's bound to be different. But here anyway ENT has a yellow sticker attached on the coils that says it cannot be used in ambient temperatures exceeding a set amount, been a long time since I looked at it- maybe 120 deg F perhaps? Something around that.

So ,,,, Inspectors who are Akamai will call that out if you run it thru attic insulation , cause the attics here will definitely get a bit hotter than that in August and September. Actually , most of the inspectors won't say boo, but if you get the wrong one, you will be removing it. Why chance it?
Is that the difference between a Haole inspection vs a native inspection?
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Old 04-04-2019, 05:29 PM   #5
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(2) Rigid PVC in thermal insulation
Direction
Notwithstanding Rule 12-1102, ESA will permit rigid PVC conduits to be used in locations enclosed in thermal insulation.
Rationale
Historically, when this rule first appeared in the code, PVC had different properties.
The way the rule is written would not permit PVC to be installed when enclosed with thermal insulation.
There are other PVC conduits and tubing that do not have this restriction, such as DB2 and ENT.
Rule 12-1104 would handle the issue of installing PVC conduit when enclosed with thermal insulation intended for use with wires and cables with a maximum operating temperature of 75 įC.
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Old 04-14-2019, 10:27 PM   #6
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quick_2 quotes the solution I'd use (DB2/Teleduct). It's even easier to run than PVC when you don't need mechanical protection/UV resistance.
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Old 04-14-2019, 10:30 PM   #7
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quick_2 quotes the solution I'd use (DB2/Teleduct). It's even easier to run than PVC when you don't need mechanical protection/UV resistance.
Only issue with DB2 is the long sweep 90į

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Old 04-14-2019, 11:00 PM   #8
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Ya, a 24" radius can be problematic.
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Old 04-14-2019, 11:06 PM   #9
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I always thought DB2 was just for underground?


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Old 04-14-2019, 11:09 PM   #10
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I always thought DB2 was just for underground?


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I remember reading somewhere that it can go in the wall(I think the code book). It's not UV resistant so it has to be burried completely underground. But what I read said that it can go in a wall too. As long as sunlight cannot get to it and it's protected from places where damage can occur.

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Old 04-14-2019, 11:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
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I remember reading somewhere that it can go in the wall(I think the code book). It's not UV resistant so it has to be burried completely underground. But what I read said that it can go in a wall too. As long as sunlight cannot get to it and it's protected from places where damage can occur.

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Interesting. And because itís not rigid PVC it can be in thermal insulation too? I also assumed I couldnít use ENT for a future conduit running through attic insulation since itís made of PVC. (Though itís obviously not rigid PVC)
I figured itís because it doesnít dissipate heat like EMT would. I better look into this. I have a job where they want a way to get conductors to the roof in the future for solar, but no decision on size/ voltage etc at this time. ENT would be much easier.


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Old 04-14-2019, 11:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funksparky View Post
Interesting. And because itís not rigid PVC it can be in thermal insulation too? I also assumed I couldnít use ENT for a future conduit running through attic insulation since itís made of PVC. (Though itís obviously not rigid PVC)
I figured itís because it doesnít dissipate heat like EMT would. I better look into this. I have a job where they want a way to get conductors to the roof in the future for solar, but no decision on size/ voltage etc at this time. ENT would be much easier.


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I'm not sure if we can run DB2 or ENT through thermal insulation. The code book only says rigid PVC can't be.

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Old 04-15-2019, 09:49 PM   #13
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I literally just posted a bulletin explaining that they can all be run in thermal insulation.... You can't be serious.
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Old 04-16-2019, 06:47 AM   #14
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I literally just posted a bulletin explaining that they can all be run in thermal insulation.... You can't be serious.
Missed that yesterday. Been having phone and computer issues

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Old 04-16-2019, 09:53 AM   #15
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Thanks @quick_2! Sorry I missed or misread that. Doesnít help me in BC, because I donít think we have that directive/ bulletin - but I should double check. Anyone know? Cheers


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