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Old 08-28-2019, 10:45 AM   #21
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Somebody show me the rule that says the clearance needs to be from the floor up. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, I just want to see it.

I talked to an inspector about this once, specifically about permanent cabinetry below the panel. He said as long as I had the required clearance in front of the panel and it could be reached flat footed, he was okay with it.
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Old 08-28-2019, 11:07 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
Not at all. There are literally thousands of condo apartments in many Canadian cities built in the 70’s with panels in the kitchens exactly like this. Taking out a permit and adding circuits is done all the time. They can not expect you to move it, it’s not possible.
These buildings were built in 1967... long before the cared about aluminum wiring, 3 way switches, arc fault protection, FPE panels, GFCI protection, dedicated fridge receptacles, or panel locations.

To relocate these panels (which is estimated to be approximatly 285 panels on this site) would be a ridiculous request... that's exactly like saying to remove the kitchen to access the panel.

If I were an inspector, I would let re-locatible appliances fly with being in front of the panel. What's to stop someone from building a work bench in front of the panel after you leave, making it a headache for next time? (This happened on a job. We cut the work bench out). I'd much rather have a dryer in front of it vs. A work bench.

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Last edited by Kevin_Essiambre; 08-28-2019 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 08-28-2019, 11:08 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by 99cents View Post
Somebody show me the rule that says the clearance needs to be from the floor up. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, I just want to see it.

I talked to an inspector about this once, specifically about permanent cabinetry below the panel. He said as long as I had the required clearance in front of the panel and it could be reached flat footed, he was okay with it.
That's the thing, it is all about how it is interpreted.

2-308
1) A minimum working space of 1m with secure footing shall be provided about electrical equipment....

The 'about' part could be interpreted by an inspector that the space must be maintained from the floor up.

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Old 08-28-2019, 11:43 AM   #24
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What if I put the panel behind a washer and dryer in a bathroom linen closet? Will that be OK?
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Old 08-28-2019, 11:57 AM   #25
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What if I put the panel behind a washer and dryer in a bathroom linen closet? Will that be OK?
So long as you do it in ass-less chaps and an 'I'm a ****tard" T-shirt....













...is what the code says.

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Old 08-28-2019, 04:16 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
The code you posted is for installing the panel, not receptacles. He can not use that code to make you move the receptacles.

The OP is talking about panels and laundry circuits installed in the 50’s and 60’s, not new installations. Simply doing work like adding another circuit does not justify the inspector requesting the home owner to relocate long existing equipment that at one time passed an inspection.

Try again
I don't think he would ask you to move the panel. I think he would say the laundry facilities can't limit access to the panel and leave it up to you how to deal with it.

Most likely the inspector WOULD just leave it in most situations.
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Old 08-28-2019, 04:36 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99cents View Post
Somebody show me the rule that says the clearance needs to be from the floor up. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, I just want to see it.

I talked to an inspector about this once, specifically about permanent cabinetry below the panel. He said as long as I had the required clearance in front of the panel and it could be reached flat footed, he was okay with it.
I know you are talking about Canadian code, but both of our codes usually have similarities. And there are Americans following this to, so I will post the NEC:

Quote:
110.26(A)(3) Height of Working Space.
The work space shall be clear and extend from the grade, floor, or platform to a height of 2.0 m (61∕2 ft) or the height of the equipment, whichever is greater. Within the height requirements of this section, other
equipment that is associated with the electrical installation and
is located above or below the electrical equipment shall be
permitted to extend not more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond the
front of the electrical equipment.
Exception No. 1: In existing dwelling units, service equipment or panelboards
that do not exceed 200 amperes shall be permitted in spaces
where the height of the working space is less than 2.0 m (61∕2 ft).
Exception No. 2: Meters that are installed in meter sockets shall be
permitted to extend beyond the other equipment. The meter socket shall
be required to follow the rules of this section.
Exception No. 3: On battery systems mounted on open racks, the top
clearance shall comply with 480.10(D).
So basically you need clearance from floor to 6.5' and the only thing that can stick out is if it is part of the panel/system, such as a trough underneath it or a meter.
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Old 08-28-2019, 04:51 PM   #28
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I've been seeing this a lot lately especially in older parts of Toronto. Small houses from the mid 50's and 60's with laundry and dryer directly in front of the panel. I explain to the homeowner that this is against code and they have to be moved. I know other contractors are quoting the jobs and not mentioning anything about relocating the machines.
So my question is this, is it usually accepted by inspectors to leave the panel blocked in these older homes? There really is nowhere else to relocate these washer and dryer in some of these homes due to their very limited space.
Just hang a picture over the panel so he can't see it. jk
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Old 08-28-2019, 04:53 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by CoolWill View Post
What if I put the panel behind a washer and dryer in a bathroom linen closet? Will that be OK?
Only if you can reach it from the tub/shower.
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Old 08-28-2019, 07:59 PM   #30
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All the things like this are called "existing non-conforming"... goes along the same idea in the other thread about GFCI in the kitchen is not always required even if it is 1.5 metres or less from the sink.

Also, if @Incognito was doing the funky chicken he would be dead by the time @joe-nwt got to the panel whether the washer was in front of it or not...

Cheers
John
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Last edited by Navyguy; 08-28-2019 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 08-28-2019, 10:08 PM   #31
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Well he's giving me such a hard time here I'm not sure I would be in any particular hurry to get to get to that panel.....
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Old 08-28-2019, 11:42 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by joe-nwt View Post
Well he's giving me such a hard time here I'm not sure I would be in any particular hurry to get to get to that panel.....[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.electriciantalk.com/images/smilies/devil.png[/IMG]
Sorry if I got you in the feels, that was not my intent. It’s just...........your always wrong!!








Lol, kidding.
All good.
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