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Old 01-07-2019, 01:53 AM   #41
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I have opened a neutral joint in a junction box attempting to remove a dead circuit only to find out the hard way that other circuits were still on and sharing that neutral. I didn’t get shocked but fried a few computers. The other circuits became a big series circuit at 208 volts when I opened the joint and disconnected the neutral feed.

Getting shocked off the neutral would be difficult in that situation actually. You would have to complete the load neutral through you to the neutral feed or to ground. And depending on your resistance, it might not even happen. I wouldn’t want to test that though.
This is rookie to the max. You have eyes. You see multiple coulors (special spelling for Canadian OP) of ungrounded conductors it tells you a big something right there and then. You have an amprobe? Ring for current on the neutrals before ever opening another neutral wire grouping up . Granted , some j-boxes are stuffed up so bad it is near impossible to see who is married to who, but the amp reading tells you if there is a load on a shared neutral from another circuit. And remember, even 1 amp can be enough to put you away. Shut a whole panel down if you must, play it safe.
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Old 01-07-2019, 03:25 AM   #42
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This is rookie to the max. You have eyes. You see multiple coulors (special spelling for Canadian OP) of ungrounded conductors

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Old 01-07-2019, 03:28 AM   #43
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*colours

I can't remember your national anthem anymore either.......
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Old 01-07-2019, 07:20 AM   #44
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This is rookie to the max. You have eyes. You see multiple coulors (special spelling for Canadian OP) of ungrounded conductors it tells you a big something right there and then. You have an amprobe? Ring for current on the neutrals before ever opening another neutral wire grouping up . Granted , some j-boxes are stuffed up so bad it is near impossible to see who is married to who, but the amp reading tells you if there is a load on a shared neutral from another circuit. And remember, even 1 amp can be enough to put you away. Shut a whole panel down if you must, play it safe.
Your right, I was a rookie. It was my first union commercial job as an apprentice. At that time I just came from a non union ressi company that re-wired old houses and did a little service at grocery stores.

Sometimes you learn the hard way and this was one of those times.

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Old 01-07-2019, 07:55 AM   #45
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I can't remember your national anthem anymore either.......

There's 4 verses about Molson, and 37 verses about moose. It's quite moving.










I kid. Be gentle with me.
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Old 01-07-2019, 12:37 PM   #46
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There's 4 verses about Molson, and 37 verses about moose. It's quite moving.










I kid. Be gentle with me.
Clearly you don't have a clue...

You forgot the verses on hockey and the beavers... We got rid of the verses about the loonies, it was sounding too much like our southern brethren; they still might be in the French version, not 100% about that.

Cheers
John
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:53 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by eddy current View Post
I have opened a neutral joint in a junction box attempting to remove a dead circuit only to find out the hard way that other circuits were still on and sharing that neutral. I didn’t get shocked but fried a few computers. The other circuits became a big series circuit at 208 volts when I opened the joint and disconnected the neutral feed.

Getting shocked off the neutral would be difficult in that situation actually. You would have to complete the load neutral through you to the neutral feed or to ground. And depending on your resistance, it might not even happen. I wouldn’t want to test that though.

This

I had a GC call me a few years back to see if I know how to fix computers and printers. It turns out that he had his laborer disconnect a cable from a circuit who had disconnected the nuteral first “just to be safe” and suddenly 1/2 dozen computers and printers stoped working evan after he put everything back.


I want to laugh but I know it cost him a lot of money
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Old 01-07-2019, 07:48 PM   #48
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This

I had a GC call me a few years back to see if I know how to fix computers and printers. It turns out that he had his laborer disconnect a cable from a circuit who had disconnected the nuteral first “just to be safe” and suddenly 1/2 dozen computers and printers stoped working evan after he put everything back.


I want to laugh but I know it cost him a lot of money

That's worse than the one two years ago when the GC told his son to cut the red cable in the way of the sprinkler head move. He had no idea and neither did his sixteen yr old son. I forgive the kid. .............. I can't leave these goons alone for a half hour lunch break...
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:58 PM   #49
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In commercial i've never used a 3 pole breaker for a set unless I was powering a motor or device that itself required 3 phases. Good luck going into a 30 year old high rise and trying to find a set that is right next to one another in a panel! I'd rather not rearrange a panel unless I need to because it sucks doing that!
...in which case there should be some other form of overcurrent device before the load
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:03 PM   #50
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I was always specifically warned about the neutral on a 277. That it would knock your off
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:06 PM   #51
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That is to say, I've seen residential guys get reckless around 120, 208, 240 neutrals and then encounter a 277 neutral. ya know?
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:23 PM   #52
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That is to say, I've seen residential guys get reckless around 120, 208, 240 neutrals and then encounter a 277 neutral. ya know?

Well, on 120, 208, and 240 V multiwire circuits, the maximum voltage that can appear on the open side of a neutral is 120. But if you open the neutral at 277, you will see 277 on it, much higher than the rest.
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:40 PM   #53
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Up here we don’t have much 277, but we have lots of 347 volt stuff. I’ve never been shocked with the neutral, but I have been bitten on the hot side and man o man, does it hurt!
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:52 PM   #54
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Up here we don’t have much 277, but we have lots of 347 volt stuff. I’ve never been shocked with the neutral, but I have been bitten on the hot side and man o man, does it hurt!
I'm 100% certain you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the hot and neutral shock... I'm sure they both suck. I got hit with 480 once... Not a fan of it.
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:45 PM   #55
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so getting hit with 480 always meant either death or blown/burnt off limb
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:45 PM   #56
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...between two legs of 277 and your toasst
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:32 AM   #57
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...between two legs of 277 and your toasst
Never got between two hot legs, but got caught between 277 and ground. Left a boil and scar on my hand, and boy did that hurt, never doing that again
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:42 AM   #58
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so getting hit with 480 always meant either death or blown/burnt off limb

Not true. Not always, anyway.
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:51 AM   #59
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You shouldn't be working on live circuits like that anyway!
keeps ya one ur toes #1 rule never touch copper, plus how else ya gonna trouble shoot that short on a 24vdc transformer
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:29 PM   #60
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We all know the reality is that in certain conditions we will troubleshoot live circuits, period. And as an apprentice, in some industrial settings, I will admit I was blessed a time or two where things could have gone a bit different. Was in a forklift basket troubleshooting a HVAC unit. Opened the control box to observe the trouble code and a 277 phase popped out off the spade connector and into my wrist. My other hand was steadying myself as I was a bit out of balance because of the unit's position around stock. Definitely hurt my feelings and left a small singe. In the end it is that low voltage holds on and high voltage blows/kicks off.

This is where the skills of understanding circuitry, extreme manual dexterity, focus, patience, and situational awareness come into play for us. This trade is not for the faint of heart, or mindless!
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