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Old 11-17-2019, 11:59 AM   #1
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Default New AFCI/GFCI circuit for internatic timer

I have to install a new circuit for some heat tracing cables that operate at 10Amps. Im going to install an Intermatic ET1125C digital timer for the circuit.

I want to mount the timer next to the main panel and install the receptacle outdoors about 70 feet away. I'm worried that the arcing of the contactor will cause nuisance tripping with the combo afci/gfci breaker.
Am I overthinking this or is this a valid reason for concern?
My other option is to install bx the entire way from the timer and install an afci/gfci receptacle.
Any thoughts?
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Old 11-17-2019, 12:19 PM   #2
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You could use something solid state like the ST700

https://www.intermatic.com/-/media/i...fications%20EN

(I just picked that out of a hat, first solid state I stumbled across, there might be some better solid state device that will handle it.)
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Old 11-17-2019, 12:32 PM   #3
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AFCI protection is not required for receptacles that are not in or on the dwelling.
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Old 11-17-2019, 12:39 PM   #4
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AFCI protection is not required for receptacles that are not in or on the dwelling.

The receptacle is attached to the exterior of the home though.
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Old 11-17-2019, 12:48 PM   #5
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Quote:
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AFCI protection is not required for receptacles that are not in or on the dwelling.

The receptacle is attached to the exterior of the home though.
Could mount the receptacle on a post beside the house. Or the long BX run. Or the solid state timer. Best options I can think of.
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Old 11-17-2019, 04:17 PM   #6
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The receptacle is attached to the exterior of the home though.
I thought you meant it was 70 feet away from the house.
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Old 11-17-2019, 08:40 PM   #7
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I think I would consider running to the timer, then to a deadfront AFCI then to the receptacle. I am not 100% sure, but if the time clock is "behind" the afci, will it still see it?

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Old 11-17-2019, 08:43 PM   #8
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I think I would consider running to the timer, then to a deadfront AFCI then to the receptacle. I am not 100% sure, but if the time clock is "behind" the afci, will it still see it?

Cheers
John
Combination AFCI will see a series arc anywhere in the circuit.
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Old 11-17-2019, 08:51 PM   #9
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I think I would consider running to the timer, then to a deadfront AFCI then to the receptacle. I am not 100% sure, but if the time clock is "behind" the afci, will it still see it?

Cheers
John
Combination AFCI will see a series arc anywhere in the circuit.
??? If that were true, then why do we have to have mechanical protection on cables before the AFCI device?
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Old 11-17-2019, 11:24 PM   #10
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??? If that were true, then why do we have to have mechanical protection on cables before the AFCI device?
Because code making panelists know that AFCI technology is flakey.
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Old 11-18-2019, 05:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyguy View Post
I am not 100% sure, but if the time clock is "behind" the afci, will it still see it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Code Man View Post
Combination AFCI will see a series arc anywhere in the circuit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddy current View Post
??? If that were true, then why do we have to have mechanical protection on cables before the AFCI device?
If the AFCI could detect arcs on the load side, how would it "see" whether the arc is on the same circuit, or a different circuit?
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:54 AM   #12
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Code man is a troll. Disregard what he says.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:37 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddy current View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Code Man View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyguy View Post
I think I would consider running to the timer, then to a deadfront AFCI then to the receptacle. I am not 100% sure, but if the time clock is "behind" the afci, will it still see it?

Cheers
John
Combination AFCI will see a series arc anywhere in the circuit.
??? If that were true, then why do we have to have mechanical protection on cables before the AFCI device?
Combination AFCI will detect parallel arc from phase to neutral, and series arc across a break or opening in the circuit. The device will only detect parallel arc downstream of the device, but it will detect a series arc both upstream and downstream.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:40 AM   #14
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Combination AFCI will detect parallel arc from phase to neutral, and series arc across a break or opening in the circuit. The device will only detect parallel arc downstream of the device, but it will detect a series arc both upstream and downstream.
I can confirm this. We had a breaker go bad and start arcing on the bus in the main panel. That arcing caused all the arc faults in the sub-panel to trip.

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Old 11-18-2019, 07:40 AM   #15
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Quote:
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Quote:
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I think I would consider running to the timer, then to a deadfront AFCI then to the receptacle. I am not 100% sure, but if the time clock is "behind" the afci, will it still see it?

Cheers
John
Combination AFCI will see a series arc anywhere in the circuit.
??? If that were true, then why do we have to have mechanical protection on cables before the AFCI device?

https://electricalindustry.ca/latest...ult-protection
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:43 AM   #16
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Code man is a troll. Disregard what he says.
It’s better to keep quiet and have people think you’re an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

https://electricalindustry.ca/latest...ult-protection
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:49 AM   #17
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It’s better to keep quiet and have people think you’re an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
You should have taken your advice in the other thread where you made yourself look like a complete and utter fool. There is no way that someone who is not trolling could possibly say what you posted. None.

You made this troll account months ago with almost no posts, then in the last few days you made 35 posts of trolling nonsense.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:54 AM   #18
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Quote:
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It’️s better to keep quiet and have people think you’️re an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
You should have taken your advice in the other thread where you made yourself look like a complete and utter fool. There is no way that someone who is not trolling could possibly say what you posted. None.

You made this troll account months ago with almost no posts, then in the last few days you made 35 posts of trolling nonsense.
When a circuit has a parallel arc, such as a pitted contactor, is the arc upstream of the device or downstream of the device? I’ll give you a hint. It’s both. 60 times a second.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:58 AM   #19
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Quote:
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When a circuit has a parallel arc, such as a pitted contactor, is the arc upstream of the device or downstream of the device? I’ll give you a hint. It’s both. 60 times a second.
Oh you are so smart
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:10 AM   #20
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Quote:
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When a circuit has a parallel arc, such as a pitted contactor, is the arc upstream of the device or downstream of the device? I’ll give you a hint. It’s both. 60 times a second.
How come a simple single pole switch doesn’t trip the arc fault every time?
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