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Old 07-17-2019, 02:11 AM   #1
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Default Question about tapping off splitter

The main service is 400 amp 3 phase and the main disconnect is in the garage and it feeds a splitter box. From the splitter, two 200 amp disconnect switches are installed which feed two 200 amp panels that are about 50 feed from the garage.

I want to install a 60 amp car charger in the garage but feeding it from one of the main panels is going to be a PITA.
In commercial, we would tap off the splitter and add a breaker but can it be done in Residential? Any codes to consider by doing this? I cant remember tap rules very well, its been a while.
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Old 07-17-2019, 05:58 AM   #2
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Can you replace one of those 200A disconnects with a small panel that you can install a 200A and 60A breaker in? That would also give you some spaces for future vehicle chargers or other things that they might want in the garage.
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:40 AM   #3
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You can come off the splitter; put the fused disco at the splitter and if it is close enough you don't need a separate disco for the charger.

If you are within 3 m of the splitter you can use it as both the overcurrent protection for the cable and the disco for the charger. If it is more then 3m, then you will need the disco at the splitter. (OESC 14-100(b)(ii)).

So the question is if you have one at the splitter will you need one at the charger... you have to answer that as I don't know the layout.

If it was a larger wire, then you can go up to 7.5 m from the splitter. It has to be 1/3 or larger of the wire supplying the splitter; so wire for 133 amps.

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Old 07-17-2019, 09:00 AM   #4
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You can come off the splitter; put the fused disco at the splitter and if it is close enough you don't need a separate disco for the charger.

If you are within 3 m of the splitter you can use it as both the overcurrent protection for the cable and the disco for the charger. If it is more then 3m, then you will need the disco at the splitter. (OESC 14-100(b)(ii)).

So the question is if you have one at the splitter will you need one at the charger... you have to answer that as I don't know the layout.

If it was a larger wire, then you can go up to 7.5 m from the splitter. It has to be 1/3 or larger of the wire supplying the splitter; so wire for 133 amps.

Cheers
John

Thank you! The conduit run from the splitter is going to be about 40 ft of #6 T90. I will put the disconnect right next to the splitter and add another disconnect next to the charger, no biggy.

Couple questions though... does the disconnect have to be fused or can I install a a small 2 circuit load center with a 2 pole breaker?

Also, the splitter should have multi sized lugs to fit #6 right? Sorry but it's been a long time since working on splitters and my first for residential.
Lastly, for this type of service with 2x200 amp panels, is one leg of the 3 phase main not being used? How do you feed 2x200 amp panels and keep this balanced?

Last edited by NDC; 07-17-2019 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 07-17-2019, 09:05 AM   #5
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Can you replace one of those 200A disconnects with a small panel that you can install a 200A and 60A breaker in? That would also give you some spaces for future vehicle chargers or other things that they might want in the garage.
This is a good idea but Im not sure if it can be done and pass inspection. These two 200 amp disconnects are the main disconnects for the panels inside the house. Im not sure if Im allowed to replace the disconnect with a load center, I think it has to be a disconnect.
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Old 07-17-2019, 09:19 AM   #6
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This is a good idea but Im not sure if it can be done and pass inspection. These two 200 amp disconnects are the main disconnects for the panels inside the house. Im not sure if Im allowed to replace the disconnect with a load center, I think it has to be a disconnect.
Why not a feed through panel? Whether it's a disconnect or a main breaker panel shouldn't make a difference.

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Old 07-17-2019, 12:30 PM   #7
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This is a good idea but Im not sure if it can be done and pass inspection. These two 200 amp disconnects are the main disconnects for the panels inside the house. Im not sure if Im allowed to replace the disconnect with a load center, I think it has to be a disconnect.
The service disconnect is the 400A disco.

Those 2 200A discos shouldn't matter if they are a typical disco or a breaker in a panel. Unless there is some odd rule in your code.
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Old 07-17-2019, 02:04 PM   #8
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Thank you! The conduit run from the splitter is going to be about 40 ft of #6 T90. I will put the disconnect right next to the splitter and add another disconnect next to the charger, no biggy.

Couple questions though... does the disconnect have to be fused or can I install a a small 2 circuit load center with a 2 pole breaker?

Also, the splitter should have multi sized lugs to fit #6 right? Sorry but it's been a long time since working on splitters and my first for residential.
Lastly, for this type of service with 2x200 amp panels, is one leg of the 3 phase main not being used? How do you feed 2x200 amp panels and keep this balanced?
sound like you have delta service there but double check the voltage reading to confirm it and with delta you should get 240 between phases.

I would use the charger on the third phase if possible if the charger allow that connection. ( check the FPN for connecetion set up )
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Old 07-17-2019, 06:58 PM   #9
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Couple questions though... does the disconnect have to be fused or can I install a small 2 circuit load center with a 2 pole breaker?
Yes. As long as you follow the rules of 14-100(b)

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Also, the splitter should have multi sized lugs to fit #6 right? Sorry but it's been a long time since working on splitters and my first for residential.
Maybe, maybe not. It could just be a wireway for the conductors that all terminate on double lugs in the main disconnect. You should open it safely and look.

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Lastly, for this type of service with 2x200 amp panels, is one leg of the 3 phase main not being used? How do you feed 2x200 amp panels and keep this balanced?
I bet if the main is a 3 phase disconnect, both of the 200 amp disconnects are also 3 phase. Are you sure the main is a three phase disco?
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Old 07-17-2019, 10:50 PM   #10
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Yes. As long as you follow the rules of 14-100(b)



Maybe, maybe not. It could just be a wireway for the conductors that all terminate on double lugs in the main disconnect. You should open it safely and look.



I bet if the main is a 3 phase disconnect, both of the 200 amp disconnects are also 3 phase. Are you sure the main is a three phase disco?

Thanks for the help. You're right, the main is not 3 phase. The splitter is labeled 3 phase but after a closer look, the main disconnect is 400 amp 2 pole.

https://imgur.com/a/XFWH9rz
This should be pretty straight forward tapping off of the splitter.

My plan is to install this 60 amp disconnect https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...2NCP/100170329

Can I use a class C 60 amp fuse or do I need time detail? This is a 48 amp charge rate.
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Old 07-17-2019, 11:50 PM   #11
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It does not matter which disconnect you use, but I would match the existing, so i would install a seimens vice a square d.

Cheers
John
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Old 07-18-2019, 10:00 AM   #12
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It does not matter which disconnect you use, but I would match the existing, so i would install a seimens vice a square d.

Cheers
John

Thanks John. I am choosing the Square D because I have a brand new 2 pole fusible disconnect in stock already.
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Old 07-22-2019, 09:07 AM   #13
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If its a Tesla, Im pretty sure the instructions state "circuit breaker" and nowhere does it say fuses are acceptable.
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Old 07-25-2019, 07:40 PM   #14
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Did the install today, the splitter trough does not have a bond connection in it. I noticed that all conduits coming out of it are rigid steel with double locknuts, is this why, does using rigid pass as a solid bonded connection over emt somehow? I didnt have any rigid conduit with me, only an emt offset nipple. Is it code to use emt and screw/tap a bonging lug Inside the splitter because this is essentially what I did.
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Old 07-25-2019, 07:46 PM   #15
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Did the install today, the splitter trough does not have a bond connection in it. I noticed that all conduits coming out of it are rigid steel with double locknuts, is this why, does using rigid pass as a solid bonded connection over emt somehow? I didnt have any rigid conduit with me, only an emt offset nipple. Is it code to use emt and screw/tap a bonging lug Inside the splitter because this is essentially what I did.
Sure the lug is fine but EMT can also be used as a bond.
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Old 07-25-2019, 08:08 PM   #16
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Did the install today, the splitter trough does not have a bond connection in it. I noticed that all conduits coming out of it are rigid steel with double locknuts, is this why, does using rigid pass as a solid bonded connection over emt somehow? I didnt have any rigid conduit with me, only an emt offset nipple. Is it code to use emt and screw/tap a bonging lug Inside the splitter because this is essentially what I did.
EMT is still considered a bond as long as it's assembled and installed correctly.

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Old 07-25-2019, 09:10 PM   #17
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Did the install today, the splitter trough does not have a bond connection in it. I noticed that all conduits coming out of it are rigid steel with double locknuts, is this why, does using rigid pass as a solid bonded connection over emt somehow? I didnt have any rigid conduit with me, only an emt offset nipple. Is it code to use emt and screw/tap a bonging lug Inside the splitter because this is essentially what I did.
For NEC side we do that pretty often with emt conduit for bonding purpose and it is legit as long it is very well secured and tight.
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Old 07-26-2019, 10:21 PM   #18
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I didnt have any rigid conduit with me, only an emt offset nipple.
Oh the horror...

Cheers

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