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Old 03-14-2020, 11:28 AM   #1
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Default Repair to damaged 500 MCM in panel

Hi everyone, I'm looking for some advise regarding an incident that happened yesterday. Took the panel cover off a recessed panel, the drywall was so tight around the frame that we were literally trying to pry it out. The inside cover was fastened with a 1 inch screw that shorted on the blue phase of the parallel feed. I will attach a picture of the damage. The aluminum is slightly damaged and the insulation as well. The manufacture recommended replacing the cable or installing a junction box above the panel. I'm exploring all options, repulling is really not an option this is a finished occupied building. If it was just insulation damage I wouldn't be worried, just do an insulation repair but the aluminum is damaged. I'm wondering about an in-line splice repair? I rubber taped it for a temporary solution so I could re-energize. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Repair to damaged 500 MCM in panel-20200313_130115.jpg


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Old 03-14-2020, 11:44 AM   #2
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Cut a 1" section out of the conductor to remove that damaged part. Then install a Polaris connector.

http://www.nsiindustries.com/catalog...ectors/ISR-500
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Old 03-14-2020, 11:50 AM   #3
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1 layer of rubber tape then Scotch 35 blue or Scotch 33 black tape.

Or

Cut a piece of shrink tube and slide it over the damage and shrink it.


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Old 03-14-2020, 11:55 AM   #4
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your done
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Old 03-14-2020, 11:57 AM   #5
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Like Hax said. Cut it right there and throw some kind of inline splice in it.
It doesn't look like much of any of the conductor was damaged. Maybe it's much worse than it looks like in the picture. If there is as little damage as I think there is, I'd just tape it up and sleep like a baby.
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Old 03-14-2020, 12:03 PM   #6
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Like Hax said. Cut it right there and throw some kind of inline splice in it.
It doesn't look like much of any of the conductor was damaged. Maybe it's much worse than it looks like in the picture. If there is as little damage as I think there is, I'd just tape it up and sleep like a baby.
It didn't short out against the cover, so, I'd agree. By all means rework the wire though.
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Old 03-14-2020, 02:01 PM   #7
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And 5 yankees jump into the Canadian section!

Now, I would recommend @HackWork has the easiest and quickest solution. Not sure what part of Canada you're from (add your province to your profile please), but we have requested deviations from the code to allow us to "extend" conductors in a disconnect.

A current example: The inspector confirmed on speaker phone with his senior inspector and told him under no circumstance is he to sight an infraction if we are limited to that option if it prevents excessive cost and labour. (We would have had to do a LOT of digging to get around the building in order to get to the pole.)

Moral of the storey: Code CAN be adjusted, keep your AHJ in the loop. The above example was done by one of our apprentices- she called and the inspector was fantastic in suggesting a quick remedy to the situation.
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Old 03-14-2020, 02:03 PM   #8
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Tape it and move on.

Nothing fancy, just a few wraps from some 33+ would do it.

To Modifier, I only pull up the "new posts". I don't look at what section it's in when I post.
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Old 03-14-2020, 02:13 PM   #9
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To Modifier, I only pull up the "new posts". I don't look at what section it's in when I post.
Yup, same here.

Moddy, so you are saying that my suggestion would not be allowed by code unless the inspector signed off on it?
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Old 03-14-2020, 02:36 PM   #10
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Yup, same here.



Moddy, so you are saying that my suggestion would not be allowed by code unless the inspector signed off on it?
Yes, because we are not allowed to splice parallel conductors.

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Old 03-14-2020, 02:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Modifier View Post
And 5 yankees jump into the Canadian section!

Now, I would recommend @HackWork has the easiest and quickest solution. Not sure what part of Canada you're from (add your province to your profile please), but we have requested deviations from the code to allow us to "extend" conductors in a disconnect.

A current example: The inspector confirmed on speaker phone with his senior inspector and told him under no circumstance is he to sight an infraction if we are limited to that option if it prevents excessive cost and labour. (We would have had to do a LOT of digging to get around the building in order to get to the pole.)

Moral of the storey: Code CAN be adjusted, keep your AHJ in the loop. The above example was done by one of our apprentices- she called and the inspector was fantastic in suggesting a quick remedy to the situation.
He's from the most messed up one. The one that speaks French.
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Old 03-15-2020, 10:19 AM   #12
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It didn't short out against the cover, so, I'd agree. By all means rework the wire though.


It did short against the cover, the damage to the conductor seems pretty minor


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Old 03-15-2020, 11:14 AM   #13
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Thanks for advice everyone


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Old 03-15-2020, 11:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Modifier View Post
And 5 yankees jump into the Canadian section!



Now, I would recommend @HackWork has the easiest and quickest solution. Not sure what part of Canada you're from (add your province to your profile please), but we have requested deviations from the code to allow us to "extend" conductors in a disconnect.



A current example: The inspector confirmed on speaker phone with his senior inspector and told him under no circumstance is he to sight an infraction if we are limited to that option if it prevents excessive cost and labour. (We would have had to do a LOT of digging to get around the building in order to get to the pole.)



Moral of the storey: Code CAN be adjusted, keep your AHJ in the loop. The above example was done by one of our apprentices- she called and the inspector was fantastic in suggesting a quick remedy to the situation.


I'm from Alberta, updated in profile


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Old 03-15-2020, 12:58 PM   #15
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if it was copper i would tape it up....

for AL I would cut it and us a compression butt splice.....AL is great until it gets damaged, any damage to the strands can cause heating.
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Old 03-15-2020, 01:09 PM   #16
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My take: Me? probably I would tape it up and split the scene. But...........
here is the deal. That 500 was rated at it's ampacity with no damage to the internal conductor(s) of the wire. A nick or ding like in the picture "may" have reduced the actual ampacity of the conductor by an undetermined amount. It's hard to tell from a picture. And also it's difficult to tell from a picture how close to tolerance that 500 gets loaded up. Maybe that 500 has a big bank of spare capacity and this thing amounts to a dust speck on a fly's ass. Maybe not, maybe that is one of those situations where the feeders get pretty warm to the touch under normal operation . All those things have to be figured in.

Hax came up with the best piece of mind fix. Simple and quick as long as there is room to pull it off.
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Old 03-15-2020, 04:32 PM   #17
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Carefully add molten aluminum to the cratered part of the conductor to fill it in. Tape up


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Old 03-15-2020, 05:43 PM   #18
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When I first looked at the post I just thought of a compression splice repair.
It now looks like such a minor nick that I would just tape it up.
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Old 03-16-2020, 12:20 PM   #19
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Id try to steal slack from somewhere and reterminate if it was possible. If im thinking about this right i think youd have to shorten both the black conductors so resistance remains equal across phases.

Might mean tracing that teck a bit and cutting a hole at the top of the panel. So not sure how viable those are as options.

On the bright side doing it that way you could shorten them all and clean it up so the panel cover fits on without forcing it.

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Old 03-18-2020, 09:53 AM   #20
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Quote:
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If im thinking about this right i think you'd have to shorten both the black conductors so resistance remains equal across phases.
My thinking is, if you're splicing one, splice both. And if possible, I would use a compression butt splice. Then there's no argument about it being a "temporary" fix.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.
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