Residential Service Upgrade - Page 2 - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum > Electrical Trade Topics > Canadian Electrical Forum


Like Tree12Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-31-2019, 03:55 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Welland, Ontario Canada
Posts: 2,203
Rewards Points: 4,116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
If the gas line is rigid threaded pipe, you do not have to run a separate bond wire. The gas line will be bonded through the wire ran to the furnace for the 120 volt feed.

Also, let’s say the gas line is CSST and you do need run a separate bond wire, you do not have to go all the way back to the panel. You can just go to a nearby electrical box and connect the bond there.

This was covered in the 2018 Ontario Code Update course.
I never heard this during the update. In fact at a recent service upgrade the inspector wanted to see the jumper at the water tank for the gas line... I picked it up on my run to the water line.

I know with "on demand" that the inspector allow the bond wire in the receptacle to act as a bond for the actual unit (because of the CSST issue), but the gas pipe still needs to be bonded as far as I know. In the past the inspectors wanted a jumper on the ductwork if there was a flexible collar at the furnace to pick up the ductwork to connect the ductwork at the furnace with the remaining ductwork.

Cheers
John
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Navyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Join Contractor Talk

Join the #1 Electrician Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

ElectricianTalk.com - Are you a Professional Electrical Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for electricians to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your specialty is you'll find that ElectricianTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!

Join ElectricianTalk.com - Click Here JOIN FOR FREE


Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ElectricianTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-31-2019, 05:29 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 314
Rewards Points: 630
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
If the gas line is rigid threaded pipe, you do not have to run a separate bond wire. The gas line will be bonded through the wire ran to the furnace for the 120 volt feed.

Also, let’s say the gas line is CSST and you do need run a separate bond wire, you do not have to go all the way back to the panel. You can just go to a nearby electrical box and connect the bond there.

This was covered in the 2018 Ontario Code Update course.
In your update course did they stipulate that the threaded piping system becomes part of the electrical "equipment"?

10-700 Equipotential grounding of non-electrical eqipment

c)the continuous metal gas piping system........blah, blah

10-708 Equipotential bonding conductor size

1) a) #6 AWG if of copper
joe-nwt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2019, 07:12 PM   #23
RSE Master Electrician
 
Incognito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 773
Rewards Points: 876
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyguy View Post

I never heard this during the update.

Cheers
John
Good thing there was not a test at the end of the course.
Attached Thumbnails
Residential Service Upgrade-bc2de815-1744-4dda-ac48-e7016ca54cdf_1567293161221.jpg  

__________________
2018 Canadian Electrical Code
Incognito is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-31-2019, 07:22 PM   #24
RSE Master Electrician
 
Incognito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 773
Rewards Points: 876
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe-nwt View Post
In your update course did they stipulate that the threaded piping system becomes part of the electrical "equipment"?
No but what was discussed was how additional bonding is not required because the pipe is bonded already when threaded rigid is used.

Remember in this type of situation, the bond wire is not there for fault current, it’️s there to make sure all metal is at the same potential. It is only #6 for mechanical protection. If you run a wire strictly for equipotential bonding, and it’️s concealed or mechanically protected, it could actually be as small as a #10 copper. 10-708(2)
__________________
2018 Canadian Electrical Code

Last edited by Incognito; 08-31-2019 at 07:59 PM.
Incognito is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2019, 07:37 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
CoolWill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: SC
Posts: 2,186
Rewards Points: 2,654
Default

Never, ever ask the inspector what he wants. Get the rules from the website and/or office, and go by that. If the inspector quibbles, force him to show you where it's wrong.
Incognito likes this.
__________________
I'm With Her! Hillary 2016
CoolWill is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2019, 07:42 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Welland, Ontario Canada
Posts: 2,203
Rewards Points: 4,116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
Good thing there was not a test at the end of the course.
I must have been sleeping during that 30 seconds of gold nugget; and so must have been the inspector that just checked my service install...

I do remember a discussion about the CSST and everyone talking about how they would run a #6 to an 1110 box... and I think that is where it was basically stated that you would just pick up the gas line as per normal.

I don't recall any discussion about not picking up the gas line, but perhaps it got lost in the CSST discussion.

Thanks for that! I will remember to use that in my Installations Lab for 100 Amp service that I teach in a few weeks.

Cheers
John
Incognito likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Navyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2019, 11:06 PM   #27
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 18
Rewards Points: 18
Default

If you need to run a separate bond for equipotential bonding why is it that the smallest size you can use, if concealed and mechanically protected, is #10. Yet, in the case of a gas pipe threaded into the furnace, most likely the bond would be a #14.

BTW, the OESA Bulletin for this is, 10-14-8

Last edited by Daveon; 08-31-2019 at 11:10 PM.
Daveon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2019, 11:26 PM   #28
Modérateur
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philippines
Posts: 8,635
Rewards Points: 16,782
Default

I know you guys were talking about the CSST but the one with yellow jacket or black jacket verison ?
__________________
Bleu est beau.
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 08:36 AM   #29
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Welland, Ontario Canada
Posts: 2,203
Rewards Points: 4,116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveon View Post
If you need to run a separate bond for equipotential bonding why is it that the smallest size you can use, if concealed and mechanically protected, is #10. Yet, in the case of a gas pipe threaded into the furnace, most likely the bond would be a #14.

BTW, the OESA Bulletin for this is, 10-14-8
I think that is a good question. Table 16 allows for a smaller wire (Rule 10-614), however the specific rule for this situation 10-708 (2).

I cannot say for 100% certainty that this is the reason, but I suspect that Rule 10-614 and Table 16 deal with specific equipment where the 10-700 series deal with "non-electrical equipment"; more of a systems approach, meaning that there are numerous appliances (pool heater, fireplace, stove, water tank, furnace, storage tank, etc) that could be connected to the gas system so a larger bonding conductor is required to consider all those potential options.

Remember in this case we are also trying to dissipate static electricity as well as deal with the bonding issue. We deal with static in fuel dispensing situations, around pools, barns, etc where in all these cases the bonding conductor was / is #6 or larger.

Reading in the CEC Handbook, the comments indicate that this has nothing to do with fault current.

Cheers
John
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Navyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 08:39 AM   #30
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Welland, Ontario Canada
Posts: 2,203
Rewards Points: 4,116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
I know you guys were talking about the CSST but the one with yellow jacket or black jacket verison ?
I am not sure what the difference is, but all of our pictures show a yellow jacketed version. I actually thought the black was PVC coated copper, but I don't know. I only ever see the black on the outside of a house; all the drops to furnace, water tank, etc seem to be in yellow.

I don't know what the rules are for using one or the other.

Cheers
John
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Navyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 09:25 AM   #31
RSE Master Electrician
 
Incognito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 773
Rewards Points: 876
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveon View Post
If you need to run a separate bond for equipotential bonding why is it that the smallest size you can use, if concealed and mechanically protected, is #10. Yet, in the case of a gas pipe threaded into the furnace, most likely the bond would be a #14.

BTW, the OESA Bulletin for this is, 10-14-8

Because there is no need to run a larger wire. The bond in the furnace feed is sized for fault current of that circuit and also puts the furnace and rigid gas pipe at the same potential as everything else in the house. If they made you use a #10 bond in this situation, you would have to feed the furnace with a #8 romex, total overkill.

When running a single conductor for equipotential bonding, they had to start somewhere so #10 was chosen, not for its current carrying capabilities but for its strength. That rule (10-708) is more for equipment that is not electrical, like a gas hot water tank where there would not be any other bond on the gas pipe.
__________________
2018 Canadian Electrical Code

Last edited by Incognito; 09-01-2019 at 12:07 PM. Reason: Oops, put my comment in your quote by accident
Incognito is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 07:03 PM   #32
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 18
Rewards Points: 18
Default

Just wanted to report back to the group following the inspection... PASS!

He was in and out in about 10 minutes. The only comment was to ensure I drilled a hole in the LB which I was planning to but forgot when I installed it (thanks HackWork).
Mobius87 likes this.
Daveon is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PaintTalk.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com