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Old 07-03-2019, 12:15 PM   #1
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Default what is 230VAC single phase?

We have some motors that come with brakes. The motors are powered by 230VAV 3PH, but the brakes are powered by 230VAC 1PH. Our supply in the building is 230VAC 3PH and I am wondering how we can get 230VAC single phase? I know I am missing something but I am not sure if 230VAC single phase is possible without having 480VAC 3PH....
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:22 PM   #2
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230V 3 phase is 3 hots.
230V single phase is 2 hots.
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:40 PM   #3
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230V 3 phase is 3 hots.
230V single phase is 2 hots.
yes 230VAC is LL, but is it possible to get 230V single phase from 230V 3 phase? I know it's not possible but I need to know for sure. BTW I am a student in case this question sounds stupid.
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:42 PM   #4
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yes 230VAC is LL, but is it possible to get 230V single phase from 230V 3 phase? I know it's not possible but I need to know for sure. BTW I am a student in case this question sounds stupid.
Yes, it is possible. This is how:

230V 3 phase is 3 hots.
230V single phase is 2 hots.
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:43 PM   #5
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yes 230VAC is LL, but is it possible to get 230V single phase from 230V 3 phase? I know it's not possible but I need to know for sure. BTW I am a student in case this question sounds stupid.
Is this a homework question?
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:45 PM   #6
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yes 230VAC is LL, but is it possible to get 230V single phase from 230V 3 phase? I know it's not possible but I need to know for sure. BTW I am a student in case this question sounds stupid.
It is possible. Any two lines will give you single phase 230.
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:47 PM   #7
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I think I see what you are getting hung up on.

3 phase is all 3 hots.
Single phase is 2 of those hots, or 1 of those hots and neutral.

There is no "2 phase" in this situation. Using 2 hots is single phase, and that is how you would make 230V single phase on a 3 phase 230V system.
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:49 PM   #8
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It is possible. Any two lines will give you single phase 230.
Ok makes sense. I was thinking single phase as of hot-natural to get 230v single phase from a 230v source which is not possible.
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:26 PM   #9
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Most residential electric hot water heaters are 230V single phase.
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:21 PM   #10
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I'm curious, where is there 230 vac 3 phase? I've never seen that one up here..

From Fortis' Installation Guide on Standard Supply voltages:

Service Voltage Phase and Wire and Connection

120 and 240 Single-phase, 3 wire
240 and 480 Single-phase, 3 wire
120 and 208 Three-phase, 4 wire wye
277 and 480 Three-phase, 4 wire wye
347 and 600 Three-phase, 4 wire wye
2400 and 4160 Three-phase, 4 wire wye
14400 and 24940 Three-phase, 4 wire wye

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Old 07-03-2019, 05:47 PM   #11
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I'm curious, where is there 230 vac 3 phase? I've never seen that one up here..

From Fortis' Installation Guide on Standard Supply voltages:

Service Voltage Phase and Wire and Connection

120 and 240 Single-phase, 3 wire
240 and 480 Single-phase, 3 wire
120 and 208 Three-phase, 4 wire wye
277 and 480 Three-phase, 4 wire wye
347 and 600 Three-phase, 4 wire wye
2400 and 4160 Three-phase, 4 wire wye
14400 and 24940 Three-phase, 4 wire wye
3 phase floating delta, 240v only
3 phase corner grounded delta, 240v only
3 phase high leg delta (or wild leg delta), 240v, 208v, 120v
3(?) phase open delta, not sure about voltages
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Old 07-03-2019, 06:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glen1971 View Post
I'm curious, where is there 230 vac 3 phase? I've never seen that one up here..

From Fortis' Installation Guide on Standard Supply voltages:

Service Voltage Phase and Wire and Connection

120 and 240 Single-phase, 3 wire
240 and 480 Single-phase, 3 wire
120 and 208 Three-phase, 4 wire wye
277 and 480 Three-phase, 4 wire wye
347 and 600 Three-phase, 4 wire wye
2400 and 4160 Three-phase, 4 wire wye
14400 and 24940 Three-phase, 4 wire wye
230V is a utilization voltage used on 240V systems. Motors and other equipment are usually rated at a voltage lower than the nominal system voltage to allow for voltage drop.

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Old 07-03-2019, 06:57 PM   #13
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3 phase floating delta, 240v only
3 phase corner grounded delta, 240v only
3 phase high leg delta (or wild leg delta), 240v, 208v, 120v
3(?) phase open delta, not sure about voltages
An open delta can be any of the "closed delta" voltages. The only difference between a closed delta and an open delta is the open delta utilizes only 2 transformers where the closed delta has 3. This reduces the total capacity of the open delta system.
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Old 07-03-2019, 08:06 PM   #14
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We have some motors that come with brakes. The motors are powered by 230VAV 3PH, but the brakes are powered by 230VAC 1PH. Our supply in the building is 230VAC 3PH and I am wondering how we can get 230VAC single phase? I know I am missing something but I am not sure if 230VAC single phase is possible without having 480VAC 3PH....
As Hack already mentioned, this is as simple as hooking up two phases instead of all 3. Unless you are dealing with some kind of strange industrial facility, you likely have 208VAC, 3 phase main incoming (not 230VAC). You can always confirm with a multimeter across the phases.

Your 230VAC 3 phase motor is actually using 208V, 3 phase but most motors will happily run at a wide range of voltages.

Your 230VAC single phase brake will likely run at 208VAC which is two hots of a 3 phase system OR 240VAC which is both hots of a single phase system. The components are likely rated for a wide range of voltages.

You can sometimes see 230VAC or 240VAC 3 phase when you are using a digital phase converter (single phase to 3 phase). Not all 3 phase motors can handle this higher voltage.

The only time that I have seen a piece of equipment that would not run on 208VAC single phase was a sensitive specialty piece of dental sterilization equipment. They had to install a small autotransformer to bump it up to 230VAC.
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Old 07-03-2019, 08:15 PM   #15
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So let me see if I understand. Canada never had 240 volt delta services?
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Old 07-03-2019, 08:17 PM   #16
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As Hack already mentioned, this is as simple as hooking up two phases instead of all 3. Unless you are dealing with some kind of strange industrial facility, you likely have 208VAC, 3 phase main incoming (not 230VAC). You can always confirm with a multimeter across the phases.

Your 230VAC 3 phase motor is actually using 208V, 3 phase but most motors will happily run at a wide range of voltages.

Your 230VAC single phase brake will likely run at 208VAC which is two hots of a 3 phase system OR 240VAC which is both hots of a single phase system. The components are likely rated for a wide range of voltages.

You can sometimes see 230VAC or 240VAC 3 phase when you are using a digital phase converter (single phase to 3 phase). Not all 3 phase motors can handle this higher voltage.

The only time that I have seen a piece of equipment that would not run on 208VAC single phase was a sensitive specialty piece of dental sterilization equipment. They had to install a small autotransformer to bump it up to 230VAC.
240V delta systems are not uncommon in the US in older facilities. They aren't typically installed new in favor of 480/277Y systems. The downsides to 240V deltas is you either have a high leg, which is unusable for single phase loads, an ungrounded system which requires ground fault indication, or you have a corner grounded system which can be dangerous for personnel not familiar with the system. The latter 2 will produce only 240V.
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Old 07-03-2019, 09:22 PM   #17
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So let me see if I understand. Canada never had 240 volt delta services?
We did, but they are fairly uncommon nowadays. The Poco around here does everything they can to get people to switch over to 208Y120 or 600Y347. 240 deltas can be found in some older industrial (or formerly industrial) buildings. A few years ago I did a reno to an old warehouse that involved installing ground fault detection and a 240D - 208Y120 transformer on an existing 240 delta service. Poco fought hard to change the service but the engineer was able to get it by somehow.

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Old 07-03-2019, 10:58 PM   #18
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I had a guy request two phase. i had to educate him, similar to this thread.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:12 AM   #19
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I don't think Ive ever seen 230V. As far as I know some motors are rated/wired at 230V to be within 10% of 208, 220, or 240 volts. If you see a rating on a motor that says 240v it can't be used on 208V or vice versa.


On another note if you see a piece of equipment that's slash rated (marked 120/208, 277/480) it needs a neutral.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:36 AM   #20
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3 phase floating delta, 240v only
3 phase corner grounded delta, 240v only
3 phase high leg delta (or wild leg delta), 240v, 208v, 120v
3(?) phase open delta, not sure about voltages
The ones I listed are from our utilities' installation guide and are the only standard supply voltages.
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