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Old 04-19-2019, 03:21 AM   #1
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Default Wye - Delta step up transformer

So has anyone ever wired up a wye - delta transformer before?

The service to the building is 277/480 and I need to provide 600V to various equipment.

The transformer I have to work with is a 45 KVA Wye - Delta configuration with the primary coming in with 3 hots and a neutral at 277/480V. The (H) or secondary side only has H1 H2 H3 to feed a 600V panel that will only supply 600V loads.

So if i supply the transformer with 3 hots and a neutral to the (X) primary and the output with 3 hots (H) to feed the 600V panel, is that up to code since I am only supplying 3 phase 3 wire loads off the panel?
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Old 04-19-2019, 05:16 AM   #2
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Here in the states we would not bring in a neutral on the primary and would corner ground the secondary.
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Old 04-19-2019, 06:17 AM   #3
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If you are back feeding this transformer DO NOT CONNECT A NEUTRAL to the line side. The factory jumpers already jumper the "XO" side of the windings. The XO terminal is for the neutral LOAD connection when connected as the secondary.

Back feeding a 45 kva transformer will only give you about 50 amps at 600 volts.
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Old 04-19-2019, 06:33 AM   #4
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The 600 volt load side of this connection will be ungrounded with no path to open the over current protection on a ground fault. I do not know Canadian codes, but here you can do a corner ground of one phase or install a ground fault monitor.
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Old 04-19-2019, 08:38 AM   #5
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if you are powering vfd with that 600v remember that they will not accept corner ground 600v system without modification, best would be a custom built delta 480 to wye 600v xformer
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Old 04-20-2019, 03:13 PM   #6
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if you are powering vfd with that 600v remember that they will not accept corner ground 600v system without modification, best would be a custom built delta 480 to wye 600v xformer
100%. Much better/safer to have a wye grounded secondary.
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Old 04-22-2019, 03:49 AM   #7
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Thank you everyone for you input!

Getting a wye connected secondary for the 600V is out of the question as I already have the transformer.

The transformer is feeding a 600V panel within 5 feet of it and that panel will only be supplying 4 small 3 wire loads of their own breakers. Will this set up be sufficient to do what it needs to do? Will corner grounding or adding ground fault indicators necessary?
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Old 04-22-2019, 06:52 AM   #8
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You're crafting an ungrounded SDS.
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Old 04-22-2019, 11:55 AM   #9
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Quote:
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Thank you everyone for you input!



Getting a wye connected secondary for the 600V is out of the question as I already have the transformer.



The transformer is feeding a 600V panel within 5 feet of it and that panel will only be supplying 4 small 3 wire loads of their own breakers. Will this set up be sufficient to do what it needs to do? Will corner grounding or adding ground fault indicators necessary?
Yes. If the VFDs don't like corner ground then you have to put in a ground fault detector.

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Old 05-03-2019, 12:33 AM   #10
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That 600 volt panel requires a neutral.Guaranteed you will need 347 volts off that panel.
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Old 05-03-2019, 07:20 AM   #11
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That 600 volt panel requires a neutral.Guaranteed you will need 347 volts off that panel.
Are you saying every panel in Canada requires a neutral?
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Old 05-03-2019, 08:01 AM   #12
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That 600 volt panel requires a neutral.Guaranteed you will need 347 volts off that panel.
Are you saying every panel in Canada requires a neutral?
No, it sounds like he’s saying the client will want to power a 347v load like lighting or heating.

Also corner grounded delta is not accepted in Canada so unless OP plans to install ground fault detection, it’ll be an illegal installation.
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Old 05-03-2019, 10:16 AM   #13
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As said above, you will need ground fault detection.


Tim.
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Old 05-04-2019, 09:42 PM   #14
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Also corner grounded delta is not accepted in Canada so unless OP plans to install ground fault detection, it’ll be an illegal installation.
Why? I'd be interested to read the code section that forbids it. Can you post it?
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Old 05-05-2019, 01:53 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by pq403 View Post
So has anyone ever wired up a wye - delta transformer before?

The service to the building is 277/480 and I need to provide 600V to various equipment.

The transformer I have to work with is a 45 KVA Wye - Delta configuration with the primary coming in with 3 hots and a neutral at 277/480V. The (H) or secondary side only has H1 H2 H3 to feed a 600V panel that will only supply 600V loads.

So if i supply the transformer with 3 hots and a neutral to the (X) primary and the output with 3 hots (H) to feed the 600V panel, is that up to code since I am only supplying 3 phase 3 wire loads off the panel?
Just break the bad news: that's not the transformer they need.

They needed to order a delta-wye 480 to 600Y347 unit.

Ship that puppy back for credit -- or scrap it. It's dinky anyway.

They are fools to under spec a transformer in the first place.

The next time they turn around they'll want more than 45 kVA.

The major cost is the installation. If they need it, they need it.

I smell VFDs in their future, too.
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Old Today, 03:47 PM   #16
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i actually just did a wye-delta step up transformer in jamaica but it was a bit of a different situation and it only worked because we had a step down transformer down the line to match North American Power as it was a Canadian Hub being used for military operations during hurricane seasons
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Old Today, 03:57 PM   #17
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Also corner grounded delta is not accepted in Canada so unless OP plans to install ground fault detection, it’ll be an illegal installation.
Maybe not accepted in your area, and personally I’ve never done it but it is in the CEC.

10-208 Conductor of an ac system to be grounded (see Appendix B)
1) The conductor of an ac system to be grounded shall be
a) one conductor of a single-phase, 2-wire system — the identified conductor;
b) the mid-phase conductor of a single-phase, 3-wire system — the identified neutral conductor;
c) the mid-phase conductor of a multi-phase system having one wire common to all phases —
the identified neutral conductor;
d) one conductor of a multi-phase system having one phase grounded — the identified
conductor;
and
e) the mid-phase conductor of one phase of a multi-phase system — the identified conductor.
2) For the multi-phase system referred to in Subrule 1) e), only one phase shall be permitted to be grounded.
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