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Old 10-02-2019, 02:50 PM   #1
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Default 2020 Residential Services-- Surge Protection

The 2020 NEC now requires surge Protection for all dwelling units services

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230.67*Surge Protection.
230.67(A)*Surge-Protective Device.

All services supplying dwelling units shall be provided with a surge-protective device (SPD).

230.67(B)*Location.

The SPD shall be an integral part of the service equipment or shall be located immediately adjacent thereto.

Exception:*The SPD shall not be required to be located in the service equipment as required in (B) if located at each next level distribution equipment downstream toward the load.

230.67(C)*Type.

The SPD shall be a Type 1 or Type 2 SPD.

230.67(D)*Replacement.

Where service equipment is replaced, all of the requirements of this section shall apply.
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Old 10-02-2019, 02:54 PM   #2
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Who sets the standard for what "surge protection" is?

Does the standard Eaton Ultra Mike Holmes edition count?

Could you use some cheap $10 crap device like what power strips have in them?
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:06 PM   #3
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I believe the Eaton surge suppressor is a type 2 so it would be okay.
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:18 PM   #4
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Oh, I missed that part about type 1 & 2. Thanks.
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:26 PM   #5
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I'd be curious to know who introduced the proposal to require that.

Was it the SPD industry?
The insurance industry?
Or POCO industry?

Anyone wanna guess?

Anyone want to take the time to look it up?
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Old 10-02-2019, 06:43 PM   #6
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And people here wonder why some of us have total disdain for the NEC when it's now abundantly clear that it's completely in the pocket of the manufacturers.
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Old 10-02-2019, 06:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeFL View Post
I'd be curious to know who introduced the proposal to require that.

Was it the SPD industry?
The insurance industry?
Or POCO industry?

Anyone wanna guess?

Anyone want to take the time to look it up?
I don't want to get into another big argument over this with the resident brainwashees, but I think it is safe to say that a reasonable, intelligent, aware electrician would think that codes like this are implemented due to pressure from the manufacturers for their own gains.
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:00 PM   #8
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The device in the $10 power strip is the same one used in industrial equipment and utilities install on every fifth pole. It’s a block of metal oxides, mostly zinc. It is sintered which means it is heated just enough so it sticks together. It comes in all shapes and sizes and it is very cheap. The only difference between say a Cooper Ultrasil UHS0306 and a WAlmart power strop is the one from Walmart has a fuse, it is thinner so it starts acting at 150 V instead of 3000 V, and it is about the diameter of a nickel instead of a silver dollar.

Guaranteed these things will be down to $10 by 2021. As to value...haha. Google arrester works and read about lead length. It protects the panel, not the TV. Whole house surge protectors are a scam.


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Old 10-02-2019, 07:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulengr View Post
The device in the $10 power strip is the same one used in industrial equipment and utilities install on every fifth pole. It’s a block of metal oxides, mostly zinc. It is sintered which means it is heated just enough so it sticks together. It comes in all shapes and sizes and it is very cheap. The only difference between say a Cooper Ultrasil UHS0306 and a WAlmart power strop is the one from Walmart has a fuse, it is thinner so it starts acting at 150 V instead of 3000 V, and it is about the diameter of a nickel instead of a silver dollar.

Guaranteed these things will be down to $10 by 2021. As to value...haha. Google arrester works and read about lead length. It protects the panel, not the TV. Whole house surge protectors are a scam.


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Even if they come down to $10, you still need a 2P breaker and 2 spaces to utilize one.
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:28 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by joe-nwt View Post
Even if they come down to $10, you still need a 2P breaker and 2 spaces to utilize one.
Square D makes surge protectors that install like a breaker, no leads. I like the idea but having seen the failure mode, I'd rather have the SPD outside of the panel in a sturdy metal box.
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:54 PM   #11
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I'm going to place most of the blame for this idiotic requirement on AFCIs.

My reasoning is that as far as I know, the breaker manufacturers were the first ones to purchase a code requirement as an investment and expect (and receive) a tidy return on it.

Next, it was the torque tool manufacturers, now it is the surge suppressor manufacturers.

Who will it be next?
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulengr View Post
Guaranteed these things will be down to $10 by 2021. As to value...haha. Google arrester works and read about lead length. It protects the panel, not the TV. Whole house surge protectors are a scam.
Nonsense. Forced use of a product never results in a price reduction. A cartel of manufacturers make AFCIs and the prices between them are virtually the same, almost to the penny.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micromind View Post
I'm going to place most of the blame for this idiotic requirement on AFCIs.

My reasoning is that as far as I know, the breaker manufacturers were the first ones to purchase a code requirement as an investment and expect (and receive) a tidy return on it.

Next, it was the torque tool manufacturers, now it is the surge suppressor manufacturers.

Who will it be next?

The same big companies that make AFCI's make surge suppressors. How convenient.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:19 PM   #14
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I bet Mike Holmes is in on it too!
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:28 PM   #15
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I bet Mike Holmes is in on it too!
Hyperbole doesn’t serve anyone.

While we know that Mike Holmes is not in on it, he certainly will be making a lot more money due to this code change.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:33 PM   #16
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I hope this will cause more people to jump ship from the NEC-brainwashed bandwagon.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:43 PM   #17
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And it will have to be explained to customers basically all bets are off for a direct or close to direct strike IMO.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:43 PM   #18
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These units are not $10.... They are $60-120 depending. Siemens make a dp 20 amp breaker that is both a circuit breaker and a whole house surge suppressor. GE used to make them so I assume other have it

Here is the siemens unit
https://www.amazon.com/Siemens-QSA20.../dp/B0052MG5K0
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:18 PM   #19
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The square D units take a couple of spaces just like a breaker. Works for me. The 2020 doesn't come into effect until at least 2021, though I need to deal with it in mass and maine most likely. Oh well, I'll hit the code update early on.
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Quote:
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I bet Mike Holmes is in on it too!
Hyperbole doesn’️t serve anyone.

While we know that Mike Holmes is not in on it, he certainly will be making a lot more money due to this code change.
Sure it does. It lightens the crusty mood, it’s humour.

I do agree with you and others though on this new code being brought in only to help people make money. There is no safety value at all.
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